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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

I don't understand

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Created by Wanga F One > 9 months ago, 21 Aug 2013
Wanga F One
QLD, 231 posts
21 Aug 2013 8:54PM
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Mass vs weight. So I get weight is the force of gravity and mass stays consistent where ever it is.
So how is mass measured. Yes in pounds or kgs but what is a the benchmark for a kg of mass?
The more I try the less I get it.

Cambodge
VIC, 851 posts
21 Aug 2013 8:58PM
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Mass is a property of the object. Weight is the force that the mass exerts.

I think you can only derive the mass indirectly. By finding out it's weight and then backing out the gravity multiplier for the particular planet on which you're doing the measurement.

Cambodge
VIC, 851 posts
21 Aug 2013 9:01PM
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Wanga F One said...
[br]what is a the benchmark for a kg of mass?



I think it's a platinum bar sitting in France...or maybe I'm mixing that up with the metre length?

These days it's probably defined as a specific number of a certain type of atom.

dinsdale
WA, 1227 posts
21 Aug 2013 7:18PM
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Mass, a scalar quantity, is measured on a beam balance. Standardised weights on1 side and the "mass" on the other. You have weight, a vector quantity, sussed closely enough. The simple way to measure it is to suspend the "weight" on a calibrated spring with a scale next to it. In other words you're measuring the effect of gravity on that "weight". With a beam balance gravity acts equally on both sides of the beam, therefore mass is unaffected by a change in gravity.

dinsdale
WA, 1227 posts
21 Aug 2013 7:33PM
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Cambodge said..
Wanga F One said...
what is a the benchmark for a kg of mass?

I think it's a platinum bar sitting in France...or maybe I'm mixing that up with the metre length?

Yep, mixing it up with a metre.

Recently a metre was based on the wavelength of krypton-86 radiation, but now it's the distance (or should that be displacement - I'm not sure) light travels in a vacuum in 3.33564095198152e-9 seconds.

The kilogram is now the only metric (SI) unit which is defined by a standard artifact rather than some obscure fact from physics.

Harrow
NSW, 4521 posts
21 Aug 2013 9:40PM
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Weight is actually the force exerted by a mass due to gravity, and so it is measured in Newtons. However, for convenience and by convention, scales are then calibrated to read the mass equivalent in kg. You will remember that F=ma, so for a 1kg mass, m=1 and a = 9.8, so F = 1x9.8 = 9.8 newtons. But, instead of writing 9.8N on the dial of your bathroom scales, they write 1kg.

Some scientific scales will show readings in Newtons, but who wants that in their bathroom?

SandS
VIC, 5904 posts
21 Aug 2013 9:49PM
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you don't understand .
















and, I don't care.

Poodle
WA, 868 posts
21 Aug 2013 8:16PM
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yes, all of the above. Mass is defined by the carbon 12 atom these days. Or it was 30 years ago. But carbon is bad. Aw sheet, back to re-education camp for me

Pitbull
WA, 1267 posts
21 Aug 2013 8:41PM
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Harrow said...
Weight is actually the force exerted by a mass due to gravity, and so it is measured in Newtons. However, for convenience and by convention, scales are then calibrated to read the mass equivalent in kg. You will remember that F=ma, so for a 1kg mass, m=1 and a = 9.8, so F = 1x9.8 = 9.8 newtons. But, instead of writing 9.8N on the dial of your bathroom scales, they write 1kg.

Some scientific scales will show readings in Newtons, but who wants that in their bathroom?


Especially when it's Bert and Patty.

theDoctor
NSW, 5786 posts
21 Aug 2013 10:50PM
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my grandma used to go to mass on sunday

Mark _australia
WA, 23701 posts
21 Aug 2013 9:23PM
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We did mass at school but I was no good with numbers so mass confused me. Then again the mass teacher was not very good.

I did good at spelling though.


Macroscien
QLD, 6809 posts
21 Aug 2013 11:42PM
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I wonder if they selling Gold as n mass or weight?
The same ounce could be as much as 6 times cheaper on the Moon, slightly more on Mars but will be quite a precious when sold on Jupiter

busterwa
3782 posts
21 Aug 2013 9:45PM
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water 1 liter is 1 kilo.as a gauge.
Lead is heavier but softer. Diamond is harder but lighter>
Grain structure is the key to mass.One common thing...as everyone has explained = gravity !
Well dont believe me i
Im going to bed Might get a gob job tonight if she dosent catch me out for being drunk !

mick14
SA, 343 posts
21 Aug 2013 11:40PM
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See this is the problem with the Internet... Too many people confusing their opinions with facts.

Battle
536 posts
21 Aug 2013 10:47PM
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Green Thumbs to THEdOCTOR and Mark. Always good for a laugh
Although my colleagues must wonder why I bust out laughing all alone in my office..........

dinsdale
WA, 1227 posts
21 Aug 2013 11:49PM
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theDoctor said..
my grandma used to go to mass on sunday

No, that was mas.

Harrow
NSW, 4521 posts
22 Aug 2013 7:46AM
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Macroscien said..

I wonder if they selling Gold as n mass or weight?
The same ounce could be as much as 6 times cheaper on the Moon, slightly more on Mars but will be quite a precious when sold on Jupiter


Gravity also varies quite a bit in different places on earth, so you could arbitrage by buying in one location and selling in another. Unless they weight the gold on balance scales instead of spring, then it would not matter.

evlPanda
NSW, 9207 posts
22 Aug 2013 11:37AM
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Harrow said...
You will remember that F=ma, so for a 1kg mass, m=1 and a = 9.8, so F = 1x9.8 = 9.8 newtons. But, instead of writing 9.8N on the dial of your bathroom scales, they write 1kg.



a being acceleration, which we are all constantly doing right now at about 9.8m/second, which I think is pretty trippy.
The 9.8 is, I guess, a constant here on Earth so is just removed from the equation (I didn't really attend high school).

...so you could arbitrage by buying in one location and selling in another.


Interesting exercise
You have a 0.5% difference between the equator and the poles just from centrifugal force, you weigh less at the equator.
Then you lose another 0.3% for every 9,000m of altitude.

So where is the highest location near the equator, and the lowest place nearest a pole, where we can trade gold?

Of course trade costs and transportation are going to kill us.

It's not that far fetched. There are trading companies that setup in locations between major (stock) trading hubs to take advantage of the speed of light. Serious auto trading software wars: www.wired.com/2012/08/ff_wallstreet_trading/

cisco
QLD, 12365 posts
22 Aug 2013 4:05PM
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dinsdale said..

Mass, a scalar quantity, is measured on a beam balance. Standardised weights on1 side and the "mass" on the other. You have weight, a vector quantity, sussed closely enough. The simple way to measure it is to suspend the "weight" on a calibrated spring with a scale next to it. In other words you're measuring the effect of gravity on that "weight". With a beam balance gravity acts equally on both sides of the beam, therefore mass is unaffected by a change in gravity.


That is a very good explanation.

Another one.

Kamikuza
QLD, 6493 posts
22 Aug 2013 4:13PM
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Because of you granny knot, fool!

paddymac
WA, 943 posts
22 Aug 2013 10:30PM
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evlPanda said..

So where is the highest location near the equator, and the lowest place nearest a pole, where we can trade gold?



Coincidence that this was on the last episode of QI... what's the point farthest from the Earth's centre?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_points_of_Earth

It is the summit of Chimborazo, in Ecuador, at 6,384.4 km from the earth's centre.

This means that Chimborazo, which is near the equator, is farther away from the centre of the Earth than is the peak of Mount Everest. The summit of Mount Everest is 2,168 m shorter at 6,382.3 km from Earth's centre.

Mark _australia said..

We did mass at school but I was no good with numbers so mass confused me. Then again the mass teacher was not very good.

I did good at spelling though.


Mark, turn in the badge and go on the comedy circuit, you're a natural!

Sailhack
VIC, 5000 posts
23 Aug 2013 10:15AM
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cisco said..


Pink shirt...acid wash denim pants...comb-over with Chuck Norris beard & combo of pocket pen & hip pouch - that teacher's got cool written all over him!



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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...


"I don't understand" started by Wanga F One