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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

Is your beach gaining sand or losing sand?

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Created by Simondo > 9 months ago, 25 Nov 2011
Simondo
VIC, 8025 posts
25 Nov 2011 9:43PM
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My local beach has grown at least 3 feet forward towards the sea in 3 years. There's a few sets of stairs that act as an excellent "Sand Dune Gauge". In the last few months, it has lost maybe 1 foot. The dunes look a big "raggedy" because the spinifex grass roots are now displayed, highlighting "erosion". The council has even expended money erecting signs highlighting beach erosion.

But it's literally 3 foot forward and 1 foot backwards, and the council thinks it's "Doom & Gloom". And the next step, back or forward, nobody knows! If a massive swell coincides with a really high tide, we might lose 1 foot. Or over Summer, we might gain 1 foot.

My council annoys me at times... Rates have gone up about 90% in 3 years too. Let's round it up to 100%. They have just gone and dropped a "bomb" of money on the ugliest "Taj Mahal - Let's Build a Monument to ourselves - Council Offices"!




Note: This is a partially separate issue to Global Warming. David Attenborough's "Frozen Planet" has opened my eyes. They highighted some serious changes at the poles for me. Including some awesome Glacial Photos from Shakleton in the early 1900's, compared to the same localities today. Wow, massive changes! "Hard to ignore", as David said.

Simondo
VIC, 8025 posts
25 Nov 2011 9:49PM
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I pay $38/week to The Council. I estimate they empty a maximum of 90 bins for me per year (combo of rubbish, recycling & green waste). That's costing me $20 per bin emptied! They do stuff all else for me!!

Davage
VIC, 182 posts
25 Nov 2011 10:10PM
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Alot of sand got caught in under the safe harbour at blairgowrie so they had it pumped a bit further down the beach. On a whole most of the beaches from frankston to portsea have lost. I wonder where it has all gone? Also wonder how much influence deepening the heads has. I know the tides are running faster/harder since.

Davage
VIC, 182 posts
25 Nov 2011 10:13PM
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Simondo said...

I pay $38/week to The Council. I estimate they empty a maximum of 90 bins for me per year (combo of rubbish, recycling & green waste). That's costing me $20 per bin emptied! They do stuff all else for me!!




Your paying the same in rates as us!!! You either live in frankston or another council is ripping you off as much as us. Although we get our street swept once a month as well

SandS
VIC, 5904 posts
25 Nov 2011 10:14PM
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Yep the ocean will do what ever it wants ,when it wants .

Active sand dunes all over me thinks , nothing new .

Mark _australia
WA, 23717 posts
25 Nov 2011 7:41PM
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It's is the fault of you people.

Wash your feet before you go home, else you are just slowly but surely taking all the sand away from the beach to your place.

Skid
QLD, 1499 posts
25 Nov 2011 9:50PM
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Mark _australia said...

It's is the fault of you people.

Wash your feet before you go home, else you are just slowly but surely taking all the sand away from the beach to your place.




Guilty as charged your honour

If anyone needs some sand, send a stamped, self addressed envelope to me and I will send you some. I have plenty through my car seats etc...

slainte
QLD, 2246 posts
25 Nov 2011 10:55PM
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Lennox Heads beach is a classic example. At the front of Beachfront Apartments there is massive boulder walls. From year to year the sand covers then uncovers at least half the rocks. Better when there's lots of sand on them (less brown snakes)

russh
SA, 3027 posts
26 Nov 2011 12:27AM
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It comes

it goes

it comes back again

It goes again

They truck it for miles

then it comes

another winter and it goes

and they truck it back again


All that diesel adding to the problem. cant have our esplanade property owners walking across a few rocks to to take the poodle for a swim now can we

japie
NSW, 7146 posts
26 Nov 2011 7:58AM
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There are at least six sand mines on the Stockton dunes. What gets trucked off there does not come back. Some got trucked as far as Hawaii to improve their beaches.

(It was not trucked the whole way)

Jradedmondo
NSW, 637 posts
26 Nov 2011 8:06AM
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my beach seems much smaller but its just all of the weedy crap thats growing that the council wont remove or at least trim, it just catches the sand there and grows higher then we get massive ledges whenever we get a decent swell

jarryd

Sailhack
VIC, 5000 posts
26 Nov 2011 9:14AM
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As mentioned - it's a cycle. I've done some work with coastal scientists in regard to planning applications and they struggle to deal with the mentality that 'the ocean is taking away our beaches' which is wide spread in the media & ultimately forced Vic government to apply heavy legislation on any coastal developments. Not to say that some areas aren't prone to erosion, but the red-tape is ridiculous for those areas that show no signs of erosion - just 'bunched' with the worst-case scenarios.

An example - a local beach where a new small development was halted by the council due to 'coastal erosion' has in fact grown 40m toward the ocean in the past 50 years, and has historic aerial photos to prove it. Unfortunately though, there are locals partitioning against the development and trying to influence the decision by showing firstly photos of the beach years ago in the middle of summer, when the sand has been pushed up & vegetation growing...and secondly, in late-winter after a storm-surge where the sand has been 'moved along' with the wind & current as the 'recent' pics.

It's a well known fact that the beach ebbs & tides with the seasons. Not sure of the stats, but in the past 10 years closure of beach access tracks have increased and I wouldn't be surprised that soon we'll all be banned from walking on a beach because it may cause erosion!

ryebloke
VIC, 54 posts
26 Nov 2011 10:12AM
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I think the main reason in Vic the beaches are de stabled, is from the sand cleaning tractors that remove the small loose washed in seaweed. The weeds previously acted as a structure, similar to reinforcement bars in concrete.

Take the seaweed away - sands moves around much more quickly.

In Fiji they bury the weed just below the sand where it gets washed up for aesthetic reasons, we tractor ours away.

Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
26 Nov 2011 1:23PM
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Maybe local councils should stick to collecting garbage, running the local library and pool and keeping the roads in good order.

Everything else seems to be expensive, non productive and just costing us heaps.

pweedas
WA, 4642 posts
26 Nov 2011 12:01PM
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Sailhack said...

As mentioned - it's a cycle. I've done some work with coastal scientists in regard to planning applications and they struggle to deal with the mentality that 'the ocean is taking away our beaches' which is wide spread in the media & ultimately forced Vic government to apply heavy legislation on any coastal developments. Not to say that some areas aren't prone to erosion, but the red-tape is ridiculous for those areas that show no signs of erosion - just 'bunched' with the worst-case scenarios.

An example - a local beach where a new small development was halted by the council due to 'coastal erosion' has in fact grown 40m toward the ocean in the past 50 years, and has historic aerial photos to prove it. Unfortunately though, there are locals partitioning against the development and trying to influence the decision by showing firstly photos of the beach years ago in the middle of summer, when the sand has been pushed up & vegetation growing...and secondly, in late-winter after a storm-surge where the sand has been 'moved along' with the wind & current as the 'recent' pics.

It's a well known fact that the beach ebbs & tides with the seasons. Not sure of the stats, but in the past 10 years closure of beach access tracks have increased and I wouldn't be surprised that soon we'll all be banned from walking on a beach because it may cause erosion!


The problem is, there is no guarantee that the current phase of sand deposit will continue. For various reasons a long 'deposit' phase can reverse into an 'erosion' phase and all the deposited sand can quite rapidly be removed, along with whatever is built on it.
I'm thinking of what happened at Wedge Island about 15 years ago. Over a long period the coastline slowly built up and eventually extended right out to the island in a very large and secure looking deposit, complete with high sand hills etc. It looked like a great place to build a holiday home with a view so some people did. Old guys who had been there for years said that it wasn't a good idea because the area was subject to erosion. For about 20 years they were wrong.
One winter they were right. The whole lot slowly got sucked back into the sea and the island was again an island by about 300 metres.

If the coast is only a sand deposit it can be removed just as easy as it was deposited. All it takes is a change in ocean currents.

If the development on oceanfront land takes place with council approval then the saving of the development takes place at community expense. That's why there are now stringent conditions being placed on the development of this land.

Sailhack
VIC, 5000 posts
28 Nov 2011 9:22AM
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I agree with you on the 'short-term' erosion-prone areas...the problem is, when the restrictions stretch to areas that aren't prone to erosion & they all get thrown in the same basket.

The one development I was referring to is >100m from the beach, the building envelopes are set behind the crest of the secondary dune (50-60m behind primary dune & swail) and avg 6-8m ht from AHD (sea-level) and on grassy land that was previously stock paddocks. The developers are farmers from several generations of landowners that have photos of the property when their great-grandparents owned the land at the turn of last century which shows small, grassy dunes & views to the ocean, currently the grassy dunes nearly obstruct the views the ocean is 50m or so further away, the land has increased over the past 100 or so years. They got planning permission, paid the fees, constructed the roads...then the council threw a Development Overlay on to the area & all works had to cease. The whole project went from a great idea and use of the land that was going to secure their retirement, to sending the family bankrupt with the bank taking the development & they lost their whole farm.

But I'm sure there are other stories like this due to planning inconsistencies.

pweedas
WA, 4642 posts
28 Nov 2011 12:58PM
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I understand what you're saying and I sort of agree but the problem is where do you draw the line.
I've got no problem with any development however likely it is to be sucked into the sea or river or lake or volcano or whatever, so long as the people who build there accept that the risk is theirs, not everyone else's.

The problem is, when their nice house gets washed down the river because they built too close to it then they bleat to the council that it's their fault for approving the development and they want compensation, (this is them shouting, 'We want compensation!)
or the insurance company because they think it should be replaced by them, even though their policy excluded flood damage, (We want compensation!)
or failing all that they bleat to the government for compensation. (We want compensation!)

I'm bitching about this because Julia hit me with a thousand dollars of flood compensation tax because some idiots over in Queensland thought it would be ok to build on a low river bank, and somehow, apparently, that's now my responsibility and I have to pay for it.
On that basis, if I have to foot the bill, then nothing is ok if it has the slightest possibility of being washed away.

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
28 Nov 2011 1:02PM
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Just watch Trigg island surf cam for a year, in winter no sand, in summer miles of the stuff..

subasurf
WA, 2154 posts
28 Nov 2011 2:55PM
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Most of the sand dissapearing from the Perth metro beaches seams to be winding up in the carpet of my cars

landyacht
WA, 5921 posts
29 Nov 2011 11:02PM
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safety bay is a great example of the coast moving. when we came in 1969 there was plenty water where your spit is now , I can remember coming home for a visit in the early 90's and wondering where the island came from.
Ive recently seen a chart of warnbo sound by septimus roe(WA's original surveyor) and it shows a massive spit that would have included seal rock , and penquin island and all those rocks to the south.
much of the housing area of safety bay is lakes and lake richmond is the smallest lake in the area

ka43
NSW, 3105 posts
30 Nov 2011 9:36AM
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Look at Collaroy/Narrabeen on Sydneys northern beaches. The council has just finished moving hundreds of tons of sand from the entrance to Narrabeen Lagoon and trucking south 1 kilometre to replenish the sand that gets washed down the beach all the time. Its a natural cycle but to appease the beach front property owners whose frontyards are now part of the high tides .
It costs hundreds of thousands of dollars, closes off a popular swimming beach area and leaves sand all over the main road.
Guarantee this time next year it will be on again.



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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...


"Is your beach gaining sand or losing sand?" started by Simondo