You've got me again rellie, I've been a vego for the last 40 years, and if you check my overall ranking on the GTC, you'll see I'm not too bad for an old fella.
There are issues with women in their menstrual years, (they need a high iron diet) and there can be a lack of vitamin b12, (I take a b12 pill daily).
Some people think it's hard to get enough protein but this isn't an issue, just develop a taste for tempeh and tofu.
Seems to have affected the Ruddster, his no meat diet has forced him to make girls cry 
Inuit don't eat any plants and seem to do real well on fish, seal and I a bit of Caribou... humans don't do good on a zero protien diet...I love eating the flesh from a grazing herbivore myself...might be better for me if I eat it raw, but I haven't gone there yet.
Those aged 20 years and older are required about 2 micro grams of B12 a day.
A bowl of breakfast cereal (fortified) contains 6.0 micro grams of B12,
One cup of yogurt has about 1.4 micro grams of B12 and roughly 13 grams of protien,
A cup of milk has about 1 micro gram and an egg has about 0.6 micro grams of B12.
There is also plenty of B vits in milo, marmite and vegemite.
You dont have to eat meat to be healthy.
Decrepit and many others are perfect examples of this.
And as for iron intake there are also plenty in green vegies
I was a vegie from aged 12 til about 19 ish.
I've never been a real meat eater since then preferring to eat only what i would be prepared to kill myself, with an occassional steak thrown in to morally chllenge of course, but after seeing a recent documentary called "Earthlings" the whole idea of vegetarianism is beginning to appeal again.
Heres a clip, but be warned its confronting harrowing stuff. Images from this doco have been imprinted on my mind and will probably stay with me for quite some time.http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6361872964130308142
I've always maintained that if God had meant us to eat meat, he would have provided suitable teeth for the job.
Someone recently pointed out that he gave us bumholes, but that doesn't mean he meant us to be gay..
I am under the impression that the latest scientific evidence points towards the fact that eating meat was one of the main factors that changed the way our brain evolved, making humans more 'human' and less ape like.
Sure does point to the fact that some footballers and a few people I have met when working in nightclubs, should eat more meat!
Another thought..
Are there any smokers who are voluntarily vegetarian?
It's as easy to eat meat as it is to have another smoke, (and probably equally difficult to quit) so I just wondered if there was any correlation between the two in terms of determination and self control.
I can understand that some people think eating parts of animals is as disgusting as I think being a smoker is, so the two things are not entirely dissimilar.
Sorry I find all this conversation just a little conceited. Humans are just animals - pure and simple - just because we have a higher developed brain and are self-aware doesn't make us above all else - why cant we accept we are just another part of "mother nature" doing our thing. Just another species that will have come and have gone. What does it matter what we eat? Sure I have concerns about how we treat animals, but that is different to the practice of eating meat. In the end the conversation is just one persons view over another. The whole world is full of different cultures and beliefs, to be putting one's own views on another is just preaching - another form of religion. Funny how humans have this great need to belong and have others follow their beliefs, to feel they belong by marginalising others. Similar to the desperate need of people to believe there is something after - the need to believe that we don't just end when we end. Gee, and hasn't that been exploited throughout the ages.
Sorry - just a rant. :))))))))
PS: what is the most basic human need. I think it is rationalisation of one's own existence and behaviour. Think about it.
I eat meat...but then, I eat pretty much anything...
...and way too much of everything!
As for the initial argument, I don't believe it's necessary for the survival of the human race to eat meat, but more a hereditory condition, and in fact by not eating meat, we wouldn't be farming cows/pigs/sheep, therefore less methane emissions...and in turn we'd have to farm much more fruit & veg...decreasing carbon dioxide levels...resulting in sustainable agrigulture and improving our ecosystem. Which would maintain our survival, as well as other living creatures on this planet.
hmmm...maybe you vegi's are onto something?!?
Well I did "try" to watch that link on 'Earthlings' sent in By Rellie, but Gee depressing or what!! makes me feel ashamed to be human in many ways.
Anyway I did save it and I will have another go at watching the rest of it, thats if I don't go and neck myself first GEEEEZ
PS
I've been a vego before and will seriously consider it again . (Humans suck)
...and way too much of everything! Which would maintain our survival, as well as other living creatures on this planet.
TonyC,
Your arguments are pretty much my beliefs, besides the "we need more people to become gay particularly in third world countries" bit...I think this would result in an increase in manufacturing in the 'fashion,shoes & makeup' area which in turn is anti-environment, but an idea just the same.
Geez, after a cold beer after windsurfing theres not much that tastes better than a nicely cooked Porterhouse steak on the barbie!!
And the vegie people have their favourites, my sister has tofu burgers at a family BBQ so its all good
ignorance is bliss.. its partly why i didn't watch the complete earthlings video.. the other reason was the fact it wasn't totally factual (least the cow section wasn't) but more emotionally based which is fair enough since humans have greater degrees and understanding of there own emotions than other animals in IMHO , it part of the parcel of why we are the intelligent earthlings and cows are the docile ones - at least up to point to when they a prodded..
i watched the video up to the cow having its throat cut in the abattoir (was a Jewish abattoir i believe as they have strict ways of killing there livestock) and can say i have seen much, much worse in nature done to a lamb by a fox than anything up to that point in the video.. guess my point is.. city folk live pretty insulated lives compared to the real wild out there and so when watching what natures animals do to each other, maybe i am desensitized by what we do to nature more so than others, bit like the guy killing those pigs with little second thought of the ultimate act of killing another living creature (ever swot a fly before?) ...
i didn't like the dogs being treated like they where and thats because i do believe all animals should be treated well for there desired use , would you forgo owning a pet so that other animals domesticated for pets wouldn't suffer like the dogs did in that video?
here though is some information for the vegetarians while they blissfully eat soy based products and wheat whole meal bread... did you know.. many millions of marsupials and quail type species of birds are painfully fleshed stripped and thrashed to death in harvesters every year while harvesting these grains, in fact in all likelihood there is some small micro percentage of meat in your loaf of bread..
bon appetite 
remember the saying ...stop running around like a chook without its head on.. ever seen a chook run around without its head on?... so is the chook still alive or dead, if you have never seen an animal instantly killed, head chopped off or shot in the brain you probably have seen the movies of the subjects instant death where the animal (usually the good or bad guy gets shot in the head) becomes instantly motionless, real life doesn't work like that at all.. muscle memory , continual heart spasms and nerve systems all play their part in death, but not to disclose suffering and pain of the animals death but to disclose reflex actions.
i have shot many cows (mostly because they where ill) and the first thing i do is check there eyes for blinking reflex, its the best way to see if the animal is brain dead, i don't recommend standing behind a cow after its been shot dead, you may still get a kick in the shin.
i don't believe animals are intelligent as in they know they are about to die by being herded into a truck to the abattoirs. they are instinctive just as a pack of dogs will bring down a sick cow as instinctive hunting behavior so will a mob of cows find it uncomfortable to be placed on a truck in a confined space - although i can assure anyone , livestock transported in Australia are not packed as sardines ,crushed or ill treated this would not be in the interest of a farmer trying to sell prime beef without bruising discounts from the abattoir ..
where does instincts come from.. genetics and the environment both play a part , dogs are a great example as we have so many breeds and each selected through breeding programs for special traits , a golden retriever for example (my fav dogs btw) obviously love retrieving, in fact the genetic disposition of this requires very little reward training as a pup to perform such behavior, though the behavior of "letting go" needs to be positively reinforced. unfortunately dogs haven't been selectively breed not to crap on your shagpile, this too usually needs to be positively reinforced although negative reinforcement works also.
reward training can be constructed as intelligence and understanding but is that really so? coming back to the pack mentality of dogs in the wild, dogs naturally have a pack mentality no mater what breed.. its why we call dogs loyal and mans best friend. rewarding dogs for behavior is in my view further reinforcing that pack mentality for food by performing functions with the leader of the pack.
and one last thing about being confined and crapped on.. i have seen cows crap on their calves while the calf was feeding... so i don't think they mind all that much about poo poo's and wee wee's ...
not trying to convert vegetarians to meat eaters , i don't eat that much red meat either to be honest.. i love chicken, fish and usually at least have one night a week meatless. sometimes two nights , moderation is the main thing for my eating habits.
one more interesting point for the vegos , have you ever heard a chook lay an egg.. now that sounds painful for the chook... they carry on like... um... a chook without its head on!
