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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

Not What You Know But Who You Know??

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Created by cisco > 9 months ago, 24 Sep 2012
cisco
QLD, 12365 posts
24 Sep 2012 10:58PM
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What will your child's future depend on?

How good they are or how connected they are.

Nepotism and crony-ism in the work place is something to be despised by any moral/ethical thinking person. Local councils in Aus seem to be full of it and we know the federal govt is rife with it, ie If you are in a health services union, you are set with the RANGA.

One could be excused for thinking that a young person with two master's degrees and was also multi lingual would have a fairly good chance in life.

Apparently not.................

Quote from the article "To be sure, having a good connection never hurts, anytime, anywhere."

But..............

www.mail.com/int/business/markets/

What do you guys think?..........Should we be rethinking our national education strategy??

Sibbo V3
VIC, 110 posts
24 Sep 2012 11:21PM
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Most successful people I know are self made.

cisco
QLD, 12365 posts
24 Sep 2012 11:25PM
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What is your definition of SUCCESS?

Best one I have ever come across is..........."Success lies in living life in your own way."

Subsonic
WA, 3426 posts
24 Sep 2012 9:31PM
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It's definitely necessary for someone to have the required qualifications for the job they want. I think the higher level jobs you should asessed firstly on what youve got to contribute to the job, not because you know such and such. However, I refuse to believe that its impossible for her to get a job because theyre all being given to people who know people, surely there's more to it than that.

Having said all that, far too many employers read far too much into how someone goes in a job interview. You might get someone who can ace a job interview, but isnt at all suited to the job theyre applying for. Another person might fall to pieces in a job interview but be perfect for the job.

Confidence is a virtue, but its not the only one.

Subsonic
WA, 3426 posts
24 Sep 2012 9:33PM
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cisco said...



"Success lies in living life in your own way."


Well said

Mackerel
WA, 313 posts
24 Sep 2012 9:49PM
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Most of the people I know that have exceeded in business (their own or corporate), including myself, have very little in the way in formal qualifications. Most have some, but they have obtained them whilst on the job, prior skills recognition becomes very relevant.
The common theme is always Drive, Work ethic and Determination. It is poor practice to rely on a single skill set to get by, be it qualifications, trades, financial equity or connections. To be successful in business you need to utilise every advantage you can, who you know will only get you in the game, what you know will determine if you succeed.

This, of course, has to be balanced by saying that it's not everyone's goal to be successful in business. Some people are happy with a beach shack and baked beans for tea, and there sure as hell is nothing wrong with that. I often think of ten years ago, before my focus changed and I worked as a bar tender. I made less than I pay in tax now but spent most of my life drinking, playing in a band, surfing, snorkeling, and in bed with my now wife. All I wanted then was a freaking big house, my mates dad's bayliner and enough money in the bank that I didn't have to check my balance. I have all of that now (I actually bought the bayliner off him!) plus three beautiful daughters, but spend maybe 5% of my time doing the above...

Mackerel
WA, 313 posts
24 Sep 2012 10:08PM
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Subsonic said...

cisco said...



"Success lies in living life in your own way."


Well said


Yes that's true. But I have four other people, my wife and daughters, that would like it their way too.

cisco
QLD, 12365 posts
25 Sep 2012 12:33AM
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Mackerel said...

Subsonic said...

cisco said...



"Success lies in living life in your own way."


Well said


Yes that's true. But I have four other people, my wife and daughters, that would like it their way too.


A bit of a conundrum. They need to take up the same ethic and release you to do yours and you release them to do theirs. What you might call a bond of freedom.

Family is one thing and individuality is another, but they are not exclusive of each other.

pierrec45
NSW, 2005 posts
25 Sep 2012 12:40AM
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Both ways.

Re. the chick early in the article: her considerable academia or qualifications may have painted her in the corner. I don't see anything in her difficulty at finding job pointing at nepotism rather than her being too specialised or perhaps having bad interviewing skills. I do not see the inference. There's also the possibility that some people ask too much. "I have a PhD this-that, therefore I deserve that much". Perhaps if she had 10-15 examples of specific jobs where she was refused, that some less qualified had...

Having said that, yes I do find that pure quals are becoming somewhat less important over intangibles and connections. Interviewing skills have gone downhill a lot, and people hire based on "I like this guy", "I think he's gonna do the job".

Mackerel
WA, 313 posts
24 Sep 2012 11:08PM
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Yes, I can see what you are saying.
But at this young age (my daughters are 8, 4 and 7 months) they need me to provide the avenues to explore what their dreams are going to be.
Gymnastics, ballet, violin, dancing... The list is endless believe me. I want my babies to see the beauty of life, all of it, and find their own passions. From sitting on the jetty with dad catching blowies to performing on stage with the WA Ballet and everything and anything else their heart desires.

To do this, my wants take a back seat. I already got what I wanted. I'm only 32 - I'll be in my fifty's when my youngest is leaving home. Plenty of time to buy a yacht and bum around drinking and fishing ect.

The next 20 years is about giving them experiences that will make them decent and passionate and kind and devoted to being all they can be.

If it means I get to spend bugger all time fishing/surfing/drinking ect then so be it. I will work to be able to pay for it all and spend the rest of my time enjoying it with them.

Either that or I'll have some sort of severe mental breakdown from having 3 teenage daughters and none of it will make a lick of difference....

Mackerel
WA, 313 posts
24 Sep 2012 11:09PM
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Oh, this was in reply to Cisco's post. Looks strange now.

Little Jon
NSW, 2115 posts
25 Sep 2012 7:09AM
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What a bout the Murdochs, it is just a coincidence that Lachlan's father is Rupert

Carantoc
WA, 7298 posts
25 Sep 2012 8:10AM
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cisco said...



One could be excused for thinking that a young person with two master's degrees and was also multi lingual would have a fairly good chance in life.



Yeah, a fairly good chance at getting a job as a trainee legal professional dealing with the economics of international law on English speaking Italians living in Hong Kong and commuting to Japan, when all documents are in Arabic, and the employing company sees Italian universities are being the best in the world and are hoping to employ an over qualified 26 year old with unrealistic expectations of her starting salary.

The world must be crying out for such people.


Maybe she could get a job driving a 785 in the Pilbara.

Pit 3 to Unit 28, come in Maria. Maria, can you park over by the service truck and give us all some advice, in Mandarin, on the legal responsibilites of the economics of the English speaking Italian community in Paris - over

sn
WA, 2775 posts
25 Sep 2012 10:08AM
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Carantoc said...
Maybe she could get a job driving a 785 in the Pilbara.

Pit 3 to Unit 28, come in Maria. Maria, can you park over by the service truck and give us all some advice, in Mandarin, on the legal responsibilites of the economics of the English speaking Italian community in Paris - over



Carantoc- you sure you havent been working in Koolyanobbing, Wodgina, Sinclair, Sunrise Dam, or Cloudbreak?
I have heard almost exactly what you described at all these sites!

stephen

whippingboy
WA, 1104 posts
25 Sep 2012 10:45AM
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Yeah I know what you mean.

Campbell Newman a true Queenslander

Campbell Newman was born on August 12, 1963 in Canberra, to parents who later both represented Tasmania in the federal parliament and were both ministers in Liberal-National coalition governments. His father, Kevin, represented the federal seat of Bass from 1975–84, and was a minister in the Fraser government. His mother, Jocelyn, was a Senator for Tasmania 1986-2002, and a minister in the Howard government. Campbell Newman was raised in Tasmania, attending Launceston Church Grammar School, then returned to Canberra

log man
VIC, 8289 posts
25 Sep 2012 8:50PM
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Cisco , sounds like you've just discovered privilege. I love it when conservatives realize that the parties they've been supporting for years are actively working against THEIR interests. Kind of a bad dream where they're being butt ****ed by Barnaby Joyce.....only they wake up.......and they're being butt ****ed by Barnaby Joyce. Cisco, you're going to need LUBE, lots of LUBE

PaddlePig
WA, 421 posts
25 Sep 2012 8:19PM
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I deal with the aftermath of 'success' and 'high achievement'. I am a teacher at a high achieving school and there are many wonderful families there and successful businessmen and women. However, some definitions of success and their interpretation of what leads to success in my opinion is failure.

If you are 'working hard' but are actually neglecting you're family and your kids, you're a disgrace in my opinion. If you're encouraging your kids to do work on holidays and you do work on holidays, rather than spending time with your family, you're a failure and you're breeding your children to do the same.

Stuff business. My absolute priority is raising my boy right and spending time with him. Academia and working hard are valued but they are valued as highly as going fishing and him spending time with me.

Just make sure you businessmen put as much drive and determination into your family and children, then you'll be an absolute success in all ways in my humble opinion.

cisco
QLD, 12365 posts
26 Sep 2012 12:40AM
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Mackerel said...

Yes, I can see what you are saying.
But at this young age (my daughters are 8, 4 and 7 months) they need me to provide the avenues to explore what their dreams are going to be.
Gymnastics, ballet, violin, dancing... The list is endless believe me. I want my babies to see the beauty of life, all of it, and find their own passions. From sitting on the jetty with dad catching blowies to performing on stage with the WA Ballet and everything and anything else their heart desires.

To do this, my wants take a back seat. I already got what I wanted. I'm only 32 - I'll be in my fifty's when my youngest is leaving home. Plenty of time to buy a yacht and bum around drinking and fishing ect.

The next 20 years is about giving them experiences that will make them decent and passionate and kind and devoted to being all they can be.

If it means I get to spend bugger all time fishing/surfing/drinking ect then so be it. I will work to be able to pay for it all and spend the rest of my time enjoying it with them.

Either that or I'll have some sort of severe mental breakdown from having 3 teenage daughters and none of it will make a lick of difference....


I appreciate what you are saying. Family or love does come first.

Greater love hath no man than he who would lay his life down for another.

cisco
QLD, 12365 posts
26 Sep 2012 12:44AM
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log man said...

Cisco , sounds like you've just discovered privilege. I love it when conservatives realize that the parties they've been supporting for years are actively working against THEIR interests. Kind of a bad dream where they're being butt ****ed by Barnaby Joyce.....only they wake up.......and they're being butt ****ed by Barnaby Joyce. Cisco, you're going to need LUBE, lots of LUBE


Hardly relevant loggy but I have been using plenty of lubricant for what the ranga with the overgrown clitoris has been doing to me.

cisco
QLD, 12365 posts
26 Sep 2012 12:49AM
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PaddlePig said...
what leads to success in my opinion is failure.


That is absolutely correct. No baby learns to walk with out falling over a lot.

Every NO is one step closer to a YES.

log man
VIC, 8289 posts
26 Sep 2012 10:30AM
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Overgrown clitoris.....Huh???

choco
SA, 4187 posts
26 Sep 2012 10:34AM
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I look at my job as a hobby, family health and happiness everything else is irrelevant.

jev7337
QLD, 460 posts
26 Sep 2012 11:40AM
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cisco said...

What will your child's future depend on?

How good they are or how connected they are.

Nepotism and crony-ism in the work place is something to be despised by any moral/ethical thinking person. Local councils in Aus seem to be full of it and we know the federal govt is rife with it, ie If you are in a health services union, you are set with the RANGA.

One could be excused for thinking that a young person with two master's degrees and was also multi lingual would have a fairly good chance in life.

Apparently not.................

Quote from the article "To be sure, having a good connection never hurts, anytime, anywhere."

But..............

www.mail.com/int/business/markets/

What do you guys think?..........Should we be rethinking our national education strategy??


Not sure what the situation is in Italy but from what I hear jobs are rare.

But to me it also looks like she spent all her time at Uni so far. Having Multiple degrees doesn't give you a ticket to a good job.

I'm in software development and one would assume a degree is a must to land a job as a software engineer or systems architect. But, when I hire people and when I have a choice of hiring someone fresh out of uni, regardless of how many degrees, or someone with no degree but 10+ years experience in the right field, I will most certainly go for the experience and not the qualification. I have 3 degrees and qualifications do not make up for lack of experience. Degrees will only help you getting into a Junior position in the right field.

On the other hand, if you got the degrees and experience to back it up you should have no problems landing, or even choosing a job. And that's where the degrees will start making a difference.

Connections will help, that's a given. But to me this looks like the chick has high expectations - but I could be completely off the track, never worked in Italy so don't know the situation just putting it into the Oz and northern European perspective. Start at the bottom, prove that you're worth the money, and work your way up.



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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...


"Not What You Know But Who You Know??" started by cisco