36 billion for submarines !!!!!
Do we need subs. Or would destroyers do us
How many subs do we get for 36 billion ?
Im sure we could get a better deal !!!!!!!
May be two good subs and ****e loads of destroyers instead .
Or hire subs when required
Or give the enemy 18 billion to stay at home and save 50 percent
All good options! 
How many Subs for $36B?
You could build a ripper of an LNG & Light Crude Oil Facility for $36B.
Offer them some free tankers laden with good oil.
It adds weight to this concept!
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/General-Discussion/Chat/Give-every-Australian-10000/
Maybe $2500 for each Aussie over 18 would be a better option!
Seriously now,. you would have thought the government would ahave learnt it's lesson from the Colins class sub disaster.
At the time we could have bought 'off thh shelf' subs for half the cost and almost immediate delivery, but no, not good enough for us. We had to have something so special that it needed to be designed by Australians, for Australians, blah blah and more political blah.
They were supposed to be capable of silent runing but from the start they were so noisy through the water that they couldn't sneak up on a dead fish. And after spending billions and billions on trying to fix the problem, we never did end up with a reliable and silent sub. They just kept tinkering with expensive retrofits until finally the problem has been solved by declaring the subs obsolete. 
What a joke. I think at most points in time over the last 30 years the best we ever had was about two subs operational. The rest were always laid up in maintenance getting mods done.
Only a poltician could believe that we would do any better going down that path again.
Buy something off the shelf. That way if it doesn't come up to specs we can sue the manufacturer and get our money back.
YOUR money. MY money. OUR taxes. 
satellite tech gear - but don't quote me exactly , and I think the nuclear types emit a thermal imagery that can be detected - read something at one time
I went on a 30 minute tour of the old submarine at the Maritime Museum in Fremantle about 7 years ago.
I'm pretty close to an expert on these matters
In between climbing around the small confines of the sub and looking at all the weird dials I listened to some of what the old navy sailor tour guy said.
- Collins class subs have an operational life of at least 30 years. They will be used until 2025 or so.
- In wargames with the US an Australian Collins class sub 'sunk' an Aircraft carrier and 2 nuclear subs.
- Nuclear powered subs need cooling systems and tend to be noisy compared to the diesel powered Collins class.
- The whole process of designing, organising contracts and building the replacement to the current Collins class Subs starts more than a decade before any replacement sub is complete.
Aussie-designed, Aussie-built subs at a cost of $XXbn is the same thing as giving a handout to the general population but you get some subs (instead of hundreds of imported giant LCD TVs) and a skilled, employed workforce (instead of unemployed giant LCD TV-watchers). Win-win! 
- remember it was quite complex Mark!
Wow that's pretty neat.
Yeh I've been on that sub in freo. Was pretty cool to check it out. It takes a special person to work in one though...The thought of being underwater in a cramped little tube while being shot at
Agree!
S&S - I agree. Euro immigration for The Snowy's Hydro System seemed to work reasonably well, all things considered.
Let them in, send them off to work for 5,000 hours (paid), plus weekly 2hr English Lessons over the journey. Then decide if they stay!
“Spend the money on Schools, hospitals, pensioners, the unemployed and fix the roads.”
Is like suggesting for a homeowner to buy the best entertainment system instead of spending money on doors, locks, fences, alarm system and home insurance. Just imagine how awesome that entertainment system would be?
There will be no hospitals, money for roads or schools if some large future despot regime decides that it wants to go and check out Australia. Australia is a large piece of land, with a mere 20 million people, located half a world away from our European and North American Allies. We are vulnerable and require strong Allies with a really good navy.
The US is our most powerful military Allie. They have 11 impressive battle carrier groups roaming the world's oceans. Each with a massive nuclear powered aircraft carrier as the centre piece. Anyone thinking of invading Australia will quickly do the Math on taking on the massive US navy aswell.
Each battle carrier group costs mega billions to build, mega billions to maintain and mega billions to service.
Australia is not in a position to outlay the cash to own one Battle group. We can build destroyers but they will be of absolutely no use to the navies of our Allies. It is more realistic for us to specialize and 'help out' where we can.
Building a modern stealth sub is like building a Formula 1 car. Technology is pushed to the limit and years of teething problems follow. The unfolding drama is easy pickings for the media.
Collins class Subs have provided invaluable information to the US when one of the subs quietly found weaknesses in the US battle group defence during wargames. The subs also help the Alliance with the US by covertly collecting and gathering intelligence.
Aircraft carrier groups are the battleship floitillas of the 21st century. They are fine for attacking defenceless blokes with RPGs and AK47s for their arms. However all of them may as well have a big red X marked on them if it ever came to a real war for the yanks involving an enemy with modern weapons. Witness the fact none of these carrier groups will go anywhere near China. The Chinese have anti ship missiles for which there is no effective defence.
The best defence Australia has is to build up friendly relations with our neigbours through trade, business relationships where mutual beneficial interests develop plus personal friendships with people around the world through trade, education and tourism.
Just build a base for a few yankee doodle dandy subs to live down under and save a packet.
Then lease the base out to them and make a packet.
Subcontract all the maintenance and logistical support and employ people.
