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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

The weight of the earth

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Created by handline > 9 months ago, 6 Jul 2012
handline
QLD, 27 posts
6 Jul 2012 10:35PM
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By mining materials that are burnt up in the atmosphere ,are we making the earth lighter,and so changing its axix..Could this be why the climate is changing..if it is?

Underoath
QLD, 2434 posts
6 Jul 2012 10:41PM
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handline said...

By mining materials that are burnt up in the atmosphere ,are we making the earth lighter,and so changing its axix..Could this be why the climate is changing..if it is?


Matter is neather created nor destroyed, simply rearranged.

Could mining half of WA and shifting that weight somewhere else contribute to axis movement? Yes!

handline
QLD, 27 posts
6 Jul 2012 10:54PM
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hard to be non political,but the biggest lobby movement usually wins..power from coal, especially could have been lowered many years ago

stamp
QLD, 2800 posts
6 Jul 2012 11:13PM
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most of the earth is covered in water so wouldn't it sort of self-correct any shifted weight?

handline
QLD, 27 posts
6 Jul 2012 11:29PM
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probably by rising

Pugwash
WA, 7733 posts
6 Jul 2012 10:30PM
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ROFL... You guys are funny.

Isostasy - we'll float... but...

Just say the earth has a radius of around 6371 km, give or take, and the continental crust has a thickness of (say) 30 km to 50 km, give or take... and an area of 2 km by 0.5 km by 0.2 km (deep) is mined... and 50% of that material is exported, the remainder is not... oh... I lost my point in waffle... oh yeah, it is so insignificant, that even if it did make a difference, we'd float!

Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
7 Jul 2012 12:36AM
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As plants receive energy from the sun and deposit their residue do they not add matter to the earth?

As we dig up and burn various materials, they float around in the atmosphere for some time and eventually return to earth. The effect is neutral.

There will come a time in the not too distant future when we will start to mine the solar system for minerals rare and expensive on Earth. As times go by we will become richer as we exploit the solar system. Earth's mass will increase as our wealth increases.

Underoath
QLD, 2434 posts
7 Jul 2012 1:01AM
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Every year Earth gains about the weight of two aircraft carriers landing on it. 40,000 tonnes-worth of debris lands on Earth. You can demonstrate this for yourself. If you put a big plastic sheet or a white sheet on your grass in the garden on a nice day, leave it for a few hours and then run a magnet over it. You can often find specks have just fallen down from outer space and landed on your magnet. Debris, dust and other stuff raining in from space contributes a huge amount of weight to the Earth every single year.

Yes, we do gain weight.

handline
QLD, 27 posts
7 Jul 2012 1:11AM
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u could be right,but u did mention photsynthesis.The lungs of the earth.The flora is the lungs..

handline
QLD, 27 posts
7 Jul 2012 1:15AM
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**** ,,bad residue,look tooo many people on earth at moment//

handline
QLD, 27 posts
7 Jul 2012 1:17AM
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so every gas ,every toxin we make stays in our sphere,doesnt leak out

Mark _australia
WA, 23711 posts
6 Jul 2012 11:20PM
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Underoath said...
Could mining half of WA and shifting that weight somewhere else contribute to axis movement? Yes!


Nah.

Whatever Rineheart takes out of the ground is about equal to what goes on her waistline.

Underoath
QLD, 2434 posts
7 Jul 2012 1:22AM
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Mark _australia said...

Underoath said...
Could mining half of WA and shifting that weight somewhere else contribute to axis movement? Yes!


Nah.

Whatever Rineheart takes out of the ground is about equal to what goes on her waistline.




Some are lead to beleive it's shared between Gina and Clive Palmer.

Mark _australia
WA, 23711 posts
6 Jul 2012 11:25PM
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^^^ I think I scored some too

handline
QLD, 27 posts
7 Jul 2012 1:34AM
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people have short ,memories,,Len Hancock,,midnight oil..asbestos..Gina is very rich.and money is not her zenith now,

handline
QLD, 27 posts
7 Jul 2012 1:36AM
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clive lost 20kg.of ****

handline
QLD, 27 posts
7 Jul 2012 1:38AM
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blue sky mine

Scotty88
4214 posts
7 Jul 2012 7:01AM
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My axis changes over winter as I gain weight.

Ian K
WA, 4170 posts
7 Jul 2012 8:40AM
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Underoath said...

Every year Earth gains about the weight of two aircraft carriers landing on it. 40,000 tonnes-worth of debris lands on Earth. You can demonstrate this for yourself. If you put a big plastic sheet or a white sheet on your grass in the garden on a nice day, leave it for a few hours and then run a magnet over it. You can often find specks have just fallen down from outer space and landed on your magnet. Debris, dust and other stuff raining in from space contributes a huge amount of weight to the Earth every single year.

Yes, we do gain weight.


Found that hard to believe so I did the sums. Surface area of earth = 5 X 10^14 sq metres. Divide 40X 10^10 gms by that area and days in the year. Came up with 2X10^-7 gms per square metre per day. At a density of 8, that's a speck just under a tenth of a mm across. You'd see that. Space dust, amazing!

Underoath
QLD, 2434 posts
7 Jul 2012 10:43AM
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Yeah it's all got to do with Ferals Law, higher densities away from the poles.

ginger pom
VIC, 1746 posts
7 Jul 2012 10:49AM
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This thread perfectly illustrates the diversity of this forum...

Macroscien
QLD, 6809 posts
7 Jul 2012 11:10AM
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Mark _australia said...

Underoath said...
Could mining half of WA and shifting that weight somewhere else contribute to axis movement? Yes!


Nah.

Whatever Rineheart takes out of the ground is about equal to what goes on her waistline.



I suggest to send Gina to the moon. Anyway she should be able to buy a tickets for her and take few immigrant workers with her.
Then she could start digging over there.
No need to mention that she will be light again. At lease six times lighter

Skid
QLD, 1499 posts
7 Jul 2012 12:18PM
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Ian K said...

Underoath said...

Every year Earth gains about the weight of two aircraft carriers landing on it. 40,000 tonnes-worth of debris lands on Earth. You can demonstrate this for yourself. If you put a big plastic sheet or a white sheet on your grass in the garden on a nice day, leave it for a few hours and then run a magnet over it. You can often find specks have just fallen down from outer space and landed on your magnet. Debris, dust and other stuff raining in from space contributes a huge amount of weight to the Earth every single year.

Yes, we do gain weight.


Found that hard to believe so I did the sums. Surface area of earth = 5 X 10^14 sq metres. Divide 40X 10^10 gms by that area and days in the year. Came up with 2X10^-7 gms per square metre per day. At a density of 8, that's a speck just under a tenth of a mm across. You'd see that. Space dust, amazing!




Ian, so you did the calcs as a reality check?
Have you no respect for the seabreeze tradition? Where is your random youtoob video proving what you find hard to believe is not true? What about personal attacts?
Checking a statement with actual facts seems like such a novel approach, can't see it catching on around here though.

Seriously though, nice work, thanks for sharing

FormulaNova
WA, 15109 posts
7 Jul 2012 11:02AM
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handline said...

By mining materials that are burnt up in the atmosphere ,are we making the earth lighter,and so changing its axix..Could this be why the climate is changing..if it is?


Who said things get lighter when they are burnt?

Ian K
WA, 4170 posts
7 Jul 2012 11:46AM
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[b]Skid said...

Ian, so you did the calcs as a reality check?
Have you no respect for the seabreeze tradition? Where is your random youtoob video proving what you find hard to believe is not true? What about personal attacts?
Checking a statement with actual facts seems like such a novel approach, can't see it catching on around here though.

Seriously though, nice work, thanks for sharing


No just out of habit. I'd hope fellow seabreezers would subject any outrageous statements I make to scrutiny. But doing the calculation locks it into long term memory. I'll never forget it now, and what an impressive little gem to be able to toss into a conversation every now and then.

Ian K
WA, 4170 posts
7 Jul 2012 12:04PM
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FormulaNova said...

handline said...

By mining materials that are burnt up in the atmosphere ,are we making the earth lighter,and so changing its axix..Could this be why the climate is changing..if it is?


Who said things get lighter when they are burnt?




OK, I'll say things get lighter when they are burnt.

Einstein first figured that out with his famous E = mc^2 equation. That equation is usually just applied to breaking those stupendously strong nuclear bonds. But the answer you get is equivalent to doing it the old fashioned way. Energy or work = force times distance. If you calculate the work needed to get those positively charged protons so close together to be latched by nuclear forces, and then you find how much heavier the before and after elements are - you find E=mc^2 is just a different way of getting the same answer.

So a set mouse trap is very slightly heavier than a sprung one. A charged battery is heavier than a flat one. Burnt mining products are lighter than unburnt ones.

But for everyday things the mass changes by so little that it's impractical to use this method to find the energy release. Force times distance or volts times amps is the easier way of doing it.

Dawn Patrol
WA, 1991 posts
7 Jul 2012 2:08PM
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Underoath said...

Every year Earth gains about the weight of two aircraft carriers landing on it. 40,000 tonnes-worth of debris lands on Earth. You can demonstrate this for yourself. If you put a big plastic sheet or a white sheet on your grass in the garden on a nice day, leave it for a few hours and then run a magnet over it. You can often find specks have just fallen down from outer space and landed on your magnet. Debris, dust and other stuff raining in from space contributes a huge amount of weight to the Earth every single year.

Yes, we do gain weight.


Nah mate that stuff on the tarp is definitely chemtrail juice

FormulaNova
WA, 15109 posts
7 Jul 2012 3:25PM
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Ian K said...

FormulaNova said...

handline said...

By mining materials that are burnt up in the atmosphere ,are we making the earth lighter,and so changing its axix..Could this be why the climate is changing..if it is?


Who said things get lighter when they are burnt?




OK, I'll say things get lighter when they are burnt.

Einstein first figured that out with his famous E = mc^2 equation. That equation is usually just applied to breaking those stupendously strong nuclear bonds. But the answer you get is equivalent to doing it the old fashioned way. Energy or work = force times distance. If you calculate the work needed to get those positively charged protons so close together to be latched by nuclear forces, and then you find how much heavier the before and after elements are - you find E=mc^2 is just a different way of getting the same answer.

So a set mouse trap is very slightly heavier than a sprung one. A charged battery is heavier than a flat one. Burnt mining products are lighter than unburnt ones.

But for everyday things the mass changes by so little that it's impractical to use this method to find the energy release. Force times distance or volts times amps is the easier way of doing it.




So, when we burn something, are we adding mass or losing mass?

When we combine something with oxygen, doesn't it get heavier?

Dawn Patrol
WA, 1991 posts
7 Jul 2012 3:43PM
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If you burn something in a closed environment, say in a glass container that was air tight, the weight of the system wouldn't change.

In an open environment it would appear that there is less weight as some would be lost to the environment.

Ian K
WA, 4170 posts
7 Jul 2012 4:32PM
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FormulaNova said...

So, when we burn something, are we adding mass or losing mass?

When we combine something with oxygen, doesn't it get heavier?




I'd say the energy, E, released as heat and radiation, as a mini chemical rather than a nuke mushroom cloud , would lead to a reduction in mass of the combustion products by E/(c^2)

This is my understanding from the popular science novel "E = mc^2" by David Bodanis. My sister gave the book to me years ago but it's still available in departure terminal bookshops. Or you can borrow it. It's a good read.

FormulaNova
WA, 15109 posts
7 Jul 2012 5:31PM
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Ian K said...

FormulaNova said...

So, when we burn something, are we adding mass or losing mass?

When we combine something with oxygen, doesn't it get heavier?




I'd say the energy, E, released as heat and radiation, as a mini chemical rather than a nuke mushroom cloud , would lead to a reduction in mass of the combustion products by E/(c^2)

This is my understanding from the popular science novel "E = mc^2" by David Bodanis. My sister gave the book to me years ago but it's still available in departure terminal bookshops. Or you can borrow it. It's a good read.




So, Ian, are you saying that the Earth is getting heavier from all the solar radiation hitting it and being used in photosynthesis?

My understanding of this concept is very limited. I remember in high school, doing the 'burn some wood in a test tube and weigh it before and after' experiment. Surprisingly ours weighed more, and we were the only group in the class to get it right. Ahh, those were the days when science was simple

Wouldn't the extra mass from the oxygen atoms exceed the mass lost from the released of energy? (I will completely ignore the fact that some of it escapes as gas )


Yeah, I wouldn't mind borrowing that book. If it's 'popular science' I might just be able to keep up!



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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...


"The weight of the earth" started by handline