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planing- pounds/square foot

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Created by Amati > 9 months ago, 27 Aug 2009
Amati
9 posts
27 Aug 2009 12:30PM
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I ran across a discussion thread that is too old to respond to, so, it seems that on that thread, it was observed that the less pounds per square inch of planing area, the more lift (that is planing) you get earlier. That's as far as that thread went, so, does anyone out there know of a theoretical or rule of thumb optimum pounds per square inch vs. getting below that number (too few pounds per square inch) just getting too draggy? This would be viz Formula (a.k.a. really really wide high aspect planing surfaces) boards, for some sort of reference point.

latedropeddy
VIC, 417 posts
29 Aug 2009 8:42PM
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maybe put the post in the GPS & speed section? Plenty of smart buggers there!

decrepit
WA, 12894 posts
29 Aug 2009 7:34PM
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Yes I agree, although it's the opposite end of the spectrum, optimising speed over early planning, instead of optimising early planning instead of speed.
I'm sure somebody there has done the maths, and it should be applicable to both disciplines.
But they will most probably be working in metric, not that ancient clumsy imperial stuff!

NotWal
QLD, 7436 posts
30 Aug 2009 1:54PM
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So you are seeking a rule of thumb that will enable you to estimate the planing threshold of a hull given the all up weight and sail and fin sizes?

That could be a universal index for all hulls couldn't it sort of like the mast stiffness index. Manufacturers could publish a planing index alongside the volume, width and length of each model.

The variables at play in real world threshold planing speed are all up weight, hull area and aspect ratio, fin size, sail size and wind strength. It seems all too complicated to get a quantitative calculation that returns the actual threshold planing speed of a particular setup, but an index would certainly offer a valid and simple means of comparing that quality in different boards. I suspect it wouldn't be much different from a straight forward comparison of widths though, but I'm just guessing.

DL
WA, 659 posts
30 Aug 2009 4:07PM
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http://www.hydrocompinc.com/knowledge/whitepapers/HC113-MinPlaningSpeed.pdf

This paper suggests that a rule of thumb for calculating planing speed (for boats?) is:

velocity in knts = k * LCG / SQRT (B)

k = Constant 4 for feet, 7.2 for metres
LCG = Distance from logitudinal centre of gravity to transom
B = Beam

Not sure how applicable it is to windsurfing, as you can radically change your CofG. The formula indicates that putting all your weight close to your tail would decrease your min planing speed, but practically, we know that mast foot pressure is essential to getting onto the plane early.

It also seems to disregard mass.

evlPanda
NSW, 9207 posts
31 Aug 2009 6:46PM
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DL said...

http://www.hydrocompinc.com/knowledge/whitepapers/HC113-MinPlaningSpeed.pdf

This paper suggests that a rule of thumb for calculating planing speed (for boats?) is:

velocity in knts = k * LCG / SQRT (B)

k = Constant 4 for feet, 7.2 for metres
LCG = Distance from logitudinal centre of gravity to transom
B = Beam

Not sure how applicable it is to windsurfing, as you can radically change your CofG. The formula indicates that putting all your weight close to your tail would decrease your min planing speed, but practically, we know that mast foot pressure is essential to getting onto the plane early.

It also seems to disregard mass.


Little maths help?

250cm board, 65cm wide so approx:
720 * 125 / 8 = 11,250 knots???

I don't think mass would affect it. More mass will just make it harder to get to that speed. It doesn't calculate how much energy you need, just speed.
(no, i'm not going into mass and speed, nerd)

edit: d'oh k is a constant 7.2, i've converted to cm.

so... 112 knots.

But in reference to the original question you will need less energy to get those pounds (kg) moving at the required speed to plane, so less wind, smaller sail, less cake etc., you still need to go, um, 112 knots to plane

nebbian
WA, 6277 posts
31 Aug 2009 8:30PM
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Center of gravity will be between the sailor's legs (ahem!) so call it 1 metre from the transom.

Beam is 65 cm, so 0.65m.

V = k * LCG / SQRT (B)
V = 7.2 * 1 / SQRT (0.65)
V = 7.2 / 0.8
V = 8 knots.


What the formula fails to address is hull speed ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_speed ), which will make a longer narrower board get up to planing speed easier than a short wide board. Once planing, however, the wider board should stay planing longer in lulls.

I think!

evlPanda
NSW, 9207 posts
3 Sep 2009 11:20AM
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nebbian said...
Beam is 65 cm, so 0.65m.

V = k * LCG / SQRT (B)
V = 7.2 * 1 / SQRT (0.65)
V = 7.2 / 0.8
V = 8 knots.



V = 7.2 * 1 / SQRT (0.65)
V = 7.2 / 0.08
V = 90 knots.


What the formula fails to address is hull speed ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_speed ), which will make a longer narrower board get up to planing speed easier than a short wide board. Once planing, however, the wider board should stay planing longer in lulls.

I think!


Yeah, this is power required to get onto the plane, which is where you use the most fuel, be it wind or petrol. That is it is much harder to get on the plane than stay on it.

Anyway, the less pounds/foot2 the easier it is to get to planing speed, which is relative to shape not weight.

Now we just need a formula for technique.

nebbian
WA, 6277 posts
3 Sep 2009 9:37AM
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evlPanda said...

V = 7.2 * 1 / SQRT (0.65)
V = 7.2 / 0.08
V = 90 knots.



I think our calculators disagree

evlPanda
NSW, 9207 posts
3 Sep 2009 9:15PM
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nebbian said...

evlPanda said...

V = 7.2 * 1 / SQRT (0.65)
V = 7.2 / 0.08
V = 90 knots.



I think our calculators disagree



No, no, I be a complete idiot.
$duh = 0.8 * 0.8;

$evlPanda =



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