2 Things have become very apparent from the questions being asked in both the Newbie forum and on the general forum.
1) Either people are not getting lessons.
2) Instructors are not teaching safety aspects of kiting.
Noobs : Please continue to ask questions ( it is in everyone's best interests ) but also please consider getting a few LESSONS ![]()
INSTRUCTORS & KITE SCHOOLS : For GODS Sake instead of just focussing on the $$$$$$$ and pumping as many people through and out on the board as soon as possible pay some consideration to teaching proper safety proceedures.
i) do you teach your students about kite sizes and winds ( including the effects of cliff updrafts and wind shadows ) ?
ii) do you teach your students about the rights of way rules ?
iii) do you teach your students about NO BOATING ZONES and relevant markers ?
iv) do you teach your students how to self land in case of emergency etc.... ?
AND THE BIG ONE :![]()
Do you teach your students how to self rescue ? This means physically teaching them water packdowns for SELF rescue not just telling them how to do it !!!!!!!!!!
All of the above should be mandatory learning before even considering getting your students out on the board. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you are not throughly covering safety for new kiters you are doing us all a disservice. ![]()
STUDENTS : If you are having lessons or have recently had lessons and are not/were not taught any of the above things ASK FOR YOUR MONEY BACK and go to an instructor who will teach you these things.
PS : there are 4 or 5 kite schools operating out of St Kilda NOT ONCE in the last 5 years have I seen any of them physically teaching self rescue.
If you are not teaching your students the critical safety aspects WTF are they paying for ![]()
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I look forward to the excuses !!
Add to that the effect of kiting in gusty cross/cross-offshore winds.
Dear newbies, please do not pump up your kite on any Melbourne beach in a northerly. Just because you can see people kiting doesn't mean it is remotely safe for you.
As a newbie-noob-noob I've got to say that all of that is completely unnecessary, just grab a kite & go for it!! ![]()
Kidding.
I agree wholeheartedly, why are there those out there that think it's ok to take short cuts? (noobs and instructors)
Lessons are a must, especially if you've been reading seabreeze for a while & heard about the various kitemares/ dangerous practices that go on ![]()
At the very least, having lessons is going to shallow out the learning curve to help you get going quicker in the sport you've come to love/obsess about ![]()
Even if you constantly trawl the net like I have for as much info/tips/techniques etc, it's no way close to being a substitute for having a few lessons & to actually be physically shown things step by step.
You've got to learn the basics, including how to be safe!
I've only had one lesson so far, more are booked, I found the instruction very good, the first lesson dealt with the rigging up of the kite, the safety mechanisms, how to safely launch & land & performing a self rescue.
Man, I couldn't imagine feeling confident & safe heading out on a kite without knowing how to self rescue.
It's just good sense to learn these things.
not only does teaching safety make good sense, you actually get kiting sooner when you know the safety and consequences of actions inside out. you build confidence faster and progress much quicker.
there are only so many windy days in a season, there are only so many of those windy days most people with their associated other life commitments can go out.
to make the most of your available time, get the safety asspect of the sport wired first. everything else you can pretty much teach yourself through trial and error and progression videos.
surf schools have the same problem. learning to surf is more than just standing on a board.
i can't stand the NRL, but i think that bogan is onto something when he says "bring back the biff"
It is true there is a lot of things missed on lessons. Ive only recently had mine and once purchasing a kite noticed things i missed
Sizes and right of ways are not taught but i would say it comes down to time. Lessons get pricey enough just to earn to get on the board $500ish. Generally its rush to get you to that stage, so when are the instructors going to take this time to teach you all these rules? The students would end up paying and no ones going to pay $1000. Its fair enough to say well students just have to pay the $1000 but if lessons get too expensive people will skip them altogether. It needs to be a balence of money and essential skills.
One of the fundamentals things i missed, was landing and launching, particular launching. These appear to be two areas where lot of accidents happen. As the instructors launch and then unhook and pass you the kite this isn't learned. Maybe its a safety thing, im not sure but it is one area we didnt cover.
Some emphasis must be placed on the students to learn these essentials of ROW, wind windows etc, outside lesson times. Maybe a simple written test must be passed before starting lessons? Similar to the car theory. Simple but would give the instructor an idea of how much the student understands and areas which may need focus.
I think you have to recognise that self rescue is different for every type of kite and condition. I've been kiting for 6 years, practiced self rescue with all my kites but still got hammered when I recently lost a pulley. The lines got crazily tangled before I could find out that I hadn't broken my IDS line and could deploy it.
My point : sure the schools should teach it, but practicing with your own kite - and exchanging tips for your kite is even better.
You can teach someone all of these things but not everyone will retain the info.
In 5 years of teaching experience I have found that the student is so focussed on getting on the board that all else takes second place. They seldom spend time practicing their kite and safety skills before venturing out with the crowd.
Add to that their reluctance to keep forking out $85 per hour to learn what they think are unnecessary skills.
The IKO lesson plan is specific and sensibly ordered. However, each student learns different things at a different pace. Others end up riding gear that is different from what they were taught on.
It's easy to point fingers at schools and instructors and claim they are chasing $$$$. Kitesurf instruction is not a profitable business venture compared to other businesses with the same investment of time and equipment.
Maybe a minimum amount of hours with an instructor should be mandatory before a student is allowed to buy gear?? It is impossible to force a student to learn anything or even complete the full IKO lesson schedule.
Big can of worms.....
what are you doing wrong if you are charging $85/hr and still not running a profitable business.
btw, what is the proper way of launching and landing a kite? i've helped launch/land a fair few but never really been taught the proper method, so i stay away from launching people if it's over 20kts.
Calculate the amount of windy days in a year and how many of them fall on weekends.
Work out how many days the wind is too strong, gusty etc
Work out the tides.
Calculate the cost of the equipment, licences, insurance, vehicles, marketing etc
It's not like plumbing or concreting where you can pile up the work and slog through it. You only have a small window of opportunity and students who only can make it on certain days.
$85 per hour is still not enough to actually make it a fulltime job.
Perhaps someone should lay out what is the best way to self rescue when the shyt hits the fan!!!
I've never been shown and would love to learn more.
More info please!!!!!!
If you want to learn about self rescue, look in the "Self Rescue" thread in the Kitesurfing-General forum.
I think that is what got "Harry Potter" so worked up in the first place.
So, where is the PDF that can be downloaded with the pictures and all the rules and safety things you need to know about kiting?
If a teacher was to demonstrate a practical self rescue, where would the student be situated? On the beach? how much would they see? Maybe we should tie them to the backs of our harnesses? That could work-
Thank god the rights of way are here on seabreeze otherwise I wouldnt know them and got abused . Iam with you harrypotter . Ther should be also a test on these topics . There should be a certificate also given before a kite shop sells a kite stating that the person has passed such test and had lessons . i thought that the government would have steped in by now and said that you could not buy a kite unless you had such a piece of paper saying you have done a minamal 3 lessons
I think that you are just trying to point the finger because kiteboarding being a self regulated sport isnt working. The sooner that they introduce licencing the sooner blame can be allocated. And the sooner the sport can become safer and only have people that know these rules and that have the skills to kite on the water.
Only then could kiteboarding instructors make enougth money from the sport to do it for a living and if they were not doing things the right way they would loose there licence to instruct getting in to kiting would be a lot more expensive and put a lot of people off but at least there would be no other way to get involved(eg self taught). You cant hold them acountable for just doing there job at the moment. **** if they didnt exist at the moment there would be newbies everywhere causing all sorts of isues.
I'm 100% with Harry Potter on this. I thought the IKO was there to teach people to kite safely, not just to kite. If you don't teach someone those basics then how can you even pretend to prepare them for the real world.
Harry came up with a great suggestion. How about the schools joining (or chatting to the KBV) and preparing a pre-lesson booklet that the guys are required to go through prior to their lesson. Make it clear that if they don't study it, they be charged the $85 in their first lesson to go through it. That way you ensure they understand the seriousness of it.
Included in it you could cover:
1. Basic zoning rules for stk
2. Basic boating and swimming rules & zones
3. Basic rules of way with high kite low kite rules
4. Kiting locations in port phillip bay
5. Kite wind ranges examples along with sample ranges for brands
6. C kites vs SLE's
7. Water recovery
etc
Obviously there could be cases where the user may not be able to continue, but you could split the booklet by lesson. If they can do it with scuba diving I don't see why it can't be done with kiting
what about the progression dvd. It goes over all the safety and ROW rules.
If your about to learn get the dvd and a trainer kite and your half way through your lessons.
Do you really wan't regulation, how many of you sell your gear without checking the person who you sell it to knows the ROW rules![]()
A local kite school here does free theory lessons at night before lessons on the beach. Seems like some have found ways to fit important things like safety in. Challenging but important.
5 years ago I spent $800 on my first session of lessons and still could not kite on a "c" . I then bought a trainer kite to understand the wind window. I so badly wanted to be a kiter, not a poley anymore.
I'm not normally considered an idiot but in hindsight I could today teach myself the same skills with todays technology within two hours.
I was focused on relauching the c and safety because I understood the greater dangers faced because of my understanding of even lesser dangers that poleys can face in variable wind and wave conditions.
I only advanced once I bought user friendly equipment and sort the advise of many knowledgeable and friendly locals. I now make a point of sharing observations with newbies.
So given that most kiters are
normal people with at least average intelligence and
have a varying ability to learn and
only retain a very limited knowledge from any lesson
most will learn to kite in time
I believe the safety aspet is self imposed through the visual exposure to the risks.
We see dumb avoidable incidents most days we kite near newbies. This reinforces our appreciation of safety.
The solution as I see it is to bombard the new student with kite accident videos prior to selling them a kite or at the completion of their first lesson.
A reasonable person will act to protect themselves.
ps
Nice Landing Matt C (how's your kite?) knee pads and elbow pads next time hey. You young fellas. **** for brains some days.
How do you expect that all these skills can be taught given the constraint of time - I mean not all of us bother getting more than 1 lesson, how can you expect the instructor to teach all of this in 1 lesson to a student that hasn't ever even flown a power kite?
Evidently time is allocated to the aspects of kitesurfing that require the most assistance - unfortuantly none of what you pointed out is particularly difficult to learn on your own.
Sure if we fork out for 3 or 4 lessons... then ok.
What I am saying is:
Self rescue isn't difficult.
Right of way is pointless unless you can actually ride.
Self landing in an emergency requires pulling the red knob/strap/release with no one downwind and having a safety attached and is generally one of the first things taught to any student I'd imagine.
I'd be pretty pissed if I were to spend $150 on a lesson to be taught how to self rescue/right of way etc. If however there were some kind of booklet/leaflet provided for post-lesson learning I'd be more than happy to read it.
Students are typically so keen to get in the water that they only retain a quarter of what is said on the safety stuff.
So teaching self rescue is necessary but not sufficient. I reckon The key is to get students to practice self-rescue themselves until they can do it on autopilot. Lots of kiteschools only teach people who have 3-5 hours of trainer kite practice under their belt. Why couldn't they ask the same for self rescue (all students need is an old bar and lines)?