Dear Noobs,
Firstly, Please do not come into our shop and ask us to sell you the cheapest 2nd hand kite and harness, BEFORE you have had lessons. We will not sell it to you under any conditions.
Secondly, Please do not get the sh1ts on because we wont sell you a kite before lessons, and no, your mates teaching you will not suffice. You are welcome to go to other shops and try with them, that's cool with us.
Book a lesson with us, or any other reputable school, THEN come and see us for your gear and we'll be happy to fit you out with some kit.
This year it seems that people feel, more than ever, that they do not need lessons. You are wrong in this thinking. In this day and age, everyone needs lessons from a qualified school or instructor.
Thanks,
DM
I am sensing a high level of frustration and totally agree with the sentiments behind the posting. Unfortunately the majority of second hand gear is sold online with some sellers happy to sell their old gear irrespective of its true condition and whether or not it really is appropriate for the buyer.
I too have sold my gear online but have probably talked myself out of more sales than I have made. On numerous occasions I have told the prospective buyer to have some lessons first and then work out what is right for them. On more than 1 occasion I have turned down a sure sale.
Nice sentiment Darren but I don't think they will be reading your post . Most of the people that you would like to communicate this to are over at buy and sell or flea bay .
Great post Darren, awesome responsibility shown by a guy that aint just a shop pimp. BTW he's the Southern hemisphere's instructor's instructor and knows what hes talking about and wants to keep beaches open. Friend lessons are when someones good enough to help you with a few tips and tricks, ie. your first backroll, NOT to teach you how to fly a potential down-wind helicopter into kids, or objects that hurt. That takes a real instructor.
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kitesurfing/General/Biggest-looser-at-kite-beach/
DONT BE THIS GUY!!!!!!
May I offer a suggestion Darren, also duplicate this in the newbies tricks and tips
I taught myself and then made my own kite with the guidance of http://www.mademan.com/mm/how-make-kite-surfing-kites.html. I really don't see what the fuss is all about ????
^^^^^Scarcasm is funny....sometimes, except when your life and others depends on it
Came in at scabs/contacio to sort out lines after dropping kite.
Old mate on white and green rebel gets dragged up beach heading to ring lock fence and saved by dropping kite (not by design) on sand dune.
After going to help, he tells me it is his second time!
He is on a 10m kite!!!
Don't necessarily blame him, but IF the guys that came up to help him afterwards are his mates, FFS, what are you doing letting him put up a kite in this arvo's winds, let alone a 10m ???
(and yes, I did say something at the time!!!)
Mmmm... Not sure deliberately giving someone a hot launch is quite in the spirit of the original posting. If you don't think the person has the right experience or gear to be going out, refuse to launch them but make sure you tell them why.
As a newbie I agree.
Lessons are an absolute must.
As someone who has done years of sailing people just don't understand what sort of power the wind can generate and being hooked to a kite is dangerous.
When I was young, although not compulsory, my parents enrolled me in sailing classes. Progression through different classes was essential.
When I first did lessons through AKS I was led to believe that some sort of accreditation from IKO was issued on completion of the three lessons.
Maybe this needs to made legal for people to kitesurf. If you can't produce a ticket, no kitesurfing.
On the subject of second hand kites. My lessons were at the end of last season and after lessons and some research I bought a second hand Core 10.5m.
Big mistake. To big for me, lines out of whack. Didn't want to stay in the air. A couple of times while launching the kite would swing down wind almost knocking people down. I decided a new kite was a better option and after a slight tweaking of the lines from the guys at AKS all is good.
I kite at Pinnaroo and notice that more experienced guys tend to set up around the AKS van while guys like myself set up upwind near the dog beach.
Inevitably, we end up drifting downwind amongst experienced guys and the windsurfers. The kite guys are patient and look out for you but you can see the windsurfers getting cranky. I usually make my way in before I reach them and make my way back along the beach and start again. A shorter version of the walk of shame. 
Can I suggest perhaps an exclusion zone of say 100m along the beach to make things a little safer and to allow new members of the community to get some practice in. Yesterday I saw a guy practice a jump close to shore, he went down and kite came down hard on the beach almost taking out an instructor and a student.
Just a little food for thought.
Happy kiting.
Really good to see the tarp floggers leading from the front.
And kiters why bother teaching your mates???
How can anyone have the patience for that? I would so much rather give the spiel "nah mate, I like you to much to teach you ...go and get proper lessons from a professional so you dont get killed by my crap lessons"
Plus another reason,
I find the kitesurfing season in Perth is to short for teaching mates
Personally I have absolutely no objections to mates who are experienced kiters teaching mates to kite, that's how we all did it. Their lessons last more than an hour or so and they usually help when it comes to buying the right gear.
What I do object to is one mate having 1 lesson and then thinking he has the skills to teach the rest of his mates, they all buy the wrong gear online and try and teach each other in the wrong blustery conditions or in the middle of the life saving club swimming zone!!!
I reckon sooner or later we'll get regulated by water authorities... at which point some kind of licence may be required...
Just did my boat licence, and the official study material already covers kiteboarding/kitesurfing and by law we should all be wearing PFDs according to the official rules... it's just that this is not heavily enforced yet...
HMM im conflicted here, you wont sell them gear if they want to learn themselves
I learnt myself from you tube tuitions mostly, and never had any dramas, i have taught a few people without issue or "qualification" I' ll let them know not to bother about seeking gear through ur outlet
I recomend seabreeze web site for purchase of second hand kites and boards thats were i got all mine from and have been happy, so fk AKS there not the be all and end all
Yeh I was self taught and after teaching a few friends I found myself feeling responsible if they hurt themselves or someone else. Not to mention having to baby sit them for atleast 3 lessons. I send everyone looking to start to pro kite lesson.
a) they cant turn around and blame you when **** goes wrong.
b)more time for me on the water.
c)its been proven that friends wont heed your advice as seriously as from a coach they dont know.
d) you dont have to feel as responsible for them when they are kooks.
And whilst it may come off fine most of the time its the one time when ya mate kiteloops a grandma and it ends up on Today Tonight is what we are all trying to avoid.
Another thing enuf with all this kitepimp Bool****...these guys are just trying to run a business in the sport they love and knowone is forcing you to buy off them so stop being so sensitive to people promoting cool products. Pinheads.
Without guys like Darren that make you feel welcome when you start the sport noobies would come on this forum and think twice. pS didnt do lessons with aks, bought one harness off them. But respect him because he always gave me the time of day and his help and time when I was starting out. He even helped me tune a kite I bought second hand off of here. Darren IOU a beer.
I guess its all very well teaching your mates.
Just depends where.
If i was running a kite school, paying my trading fees to the local council, paying my insurance etc (as i am sure all kite schools do ) and some numby came to the beach i was teaching at with his mate i'd ask that person to either stop or call the ranger.
If they have an accident or take out punters on the beach makes the school look bad.
The advice in this post hits the nail on the head IMO.
Kiters also need to take responsibility when selling kites however - if I sell a kite on E-bay/gumtree etc, at what point does my responsibility stop if a newbie purchases the kite?
If selling through Ebay etc, kiters must take some responsibility to ensure that the kite is actually being purchased by someone who knows what they are doing. A few probing questions about experience & skill level to the potential purchaser wouldn't be too difficult & would sort newbie from experienced - and save us all from a world of grief....
[}:)]
I understand the motive but don't agree with the plan of attack.
By refusing to sell and sending people out of the shop you are not improving the learning process of that customer. Simply shifting the blame to someone else. Yet at the same time yourve had a chance to change their mind set and haven't.
Theres 4 phases of the learning process.
unconcious incompetence. you don't know what you don't know
concious incompetence. shhiit it is hard
concious competenece. i can do it but need to think about it.
unconcious competence. i can do it without thinking about it.
Now all you need to do is take these guys from unconcious incompetence to concious incompetence to convince them they need a lesson.
So i prepose this. Don't send the bargain hunters off out of your store empty handed. Inflate the price of your cheap kite by a couple of hundred and offer kite and starter lesson. In that lesson you have time to take them to the next step. Even if it requires hooking them into the big kite and scaring them a little with the power. Surely thats a better option than simply sending the blokes to buy kites elsewhere and and injure them selves.
the lessons i had were fantastic, frlom safety through technique they are worth there weight in gold, or oil, or white truffle, or B00Bs 
I also am self taught and didnt have any real problems. That said if i had to do it again id get lessons! My learning curve was ****e to say the least, nearly gave it up a few times and with lessons i would have saved a few repairs to my rigs crashing a schools kites. After lessons i wouldnt have let a seabreeze user sell me a 05 C kite because it was good for beginners!!
4 years of kiting later plenty of friends want me to teach them, and i will but when it comes down to, they are not using my new quiver to learn, and we have to travel away from crowds to wedge or similar they arnt to keen :)
Yeh a difficult one this one. Been kiting for 11 years, taught one person, my brother, but on isolated beaches with no-one around. I had lessons 11 years ago by Ian Young on two line LEI, then foils, and he was a stickler for safety, and I must admit i've inherited the same ideas, hence never had a bad incident in 11 years... you wait tomoz it's all going to sh1t.
mmm what to do...
Having all stores regulate the industry by not selling kites to learners works pretty well for the dive industry so perhaps we can learn from that.
I disagree with teaching people though, I paid for lesson from one of these reputable schools and it was well average to say the least. Alot of schools have good kiters but average instructors. Good kiters dont always make good teachers. For every good school like AKS theres another 3 **** ones! The industry as a whole should put some more time into developing better teaching methods that all schools follow. Regulated by waksa or some other body that has no financial interest but goes in to Audit the schools.
Another thing would be not to charge so much. $750 to learn to fly a kite is quite alot of money.
