This summer has seen not one (The usuall guy) but up to six different kite schools stretched along the already busy Woodies bch 1. This makes it impossible to ride the small but fun shore waves along the beach as they all hang their kites over the water shore line. I'm all for people learning and getting in to the sport, Ive been kitesurfing for 11 years and encourage it but If they all moved further down to the end of the beach there wouldn't be such a problem.
From what I believe they all need a permit from the ranger/council and from what I believe none have been allocated nor will be by the council, so there for are operating illegally.
Yes I know people will say its a teaching beach then so is every beach then, there are know designated teaching beaches by law.
If they were to have a major incident down there with a learner they would be in serious ****e.
I'm over it and I know alot of the local guys are as well. I have been wrapped up three time by these schools and had enough.
Its time these schools move to the southern end of the beach or go else where.
Cheers
Had my vent
Totally agree, if only flying training kites or body dragging why cant the move further down the beach into the bay area, lots more space and less agro. Everyone has to learn so why not make it a enjoyable experience and give them more space to make there mistakes further down the beach
so whats the story with all these schools running without permits
Is it just an accepted thing now Doesn't make much sense to have public liability cover if you don't have permits or does everyone take lessons knowing they are not covered. I suppose the other thing would be does WAKSA support this. Then again isn't woodmans a sanctury zone run by DEC so any commercial operator needs a T class liscence
My point exactly Turtle. All getting A free ride. It's like anyone with there IKO is instructing down there.
I tell you now it not going to last that's for sure.
There's no currents or swell like at scarborough and its an onshore wind. Its a good spot to teach. I dont think people should be teaching at the launch / land area unless its like at 11am with a trainer kite when there's not much wind, but it'd also suck if they gave out a permit to only 1 kite school. Then the little schools would have no good spots to teach.
Just get off the launch / land area 
If some instructors don't have IKO its because they've got BKSA instead 
I agree with you Specimen, kite schools are the biggest threat to our local spots. As far as I know, there is only one school which has applied for a permit to teach at Woodies 1.
Kite schools are a major problem, especially when one runs across the odd instructor who is just not a nice person. Kite instructors are mostly overseas back packers with no knowledge of local convention, pay no taxes, operate illegally and screw up local spots, they are parasites interested in one thing only and that is a quick buck. They put nothing back in to the sport or society, all they do is take and put more people on the water. Another month or so and they will move on, but next year will be worse if nothing is done.
There are kite schools with permits who pay taxes and it is the small and often illegal operators who are taking their customers.
If nothing else, perhaps the instructors who are teaching at Woodies 1 would make and effort to be nice.
lol kind of figured I would get red thumbed but maybe WAKSA should look into this as if there is any regulation on kiteboarding thats probably where they should start.
I am not saying these instructors are no good but more that with no one licensed you will just have more and more teaching there until it gets way out of control. Some kind of future plan re WAKSA supported teaching beaches and schools would go a long way in keeping spots open and put kiters in a better light with councils.
I haven't spent much time down there for a long time but if your going to have teaching beaches like pinaroo has become wouldn't beach 1 be one of the more favourable spots around the metro area for licensed schools.
Just putting it out there so rather than using the red thumbs add your comments.
Agree totally with Specimen - the schools are really making things difficult.
The whole area is (I believe), a reserve controlled by DEC and by the City of Cockburn.
They won't issue a permit. Full Stop. This also means that unlike schools run by Turtle and others, the instructors/schools cannot get insurance... Insurance... Insurance...
If something bad happens and it happens to a beginner, or is caused by a beginner to another individual; there is no INSURANCE... Would a visiting instructor be around to assist with the possible payment of an award against them?
I'm sure that if the council and DEC were aware of their exposure, they would put a stop to it pretty damn quick...
I agree totally with Specimen and I'm glad people are having lessons rather than being taught by mates, but it needs to be done properly. I don't think ther is anything WAKSA could do to assist or control these individual instructors / schools.
agree Specimen,
guess its time to speak to Cockburn council again and ask them to come to woodies and clean up the beach again .
ill speak to them on Monday ,
i know the guy who came down last time.
It's a shame so many councils can't get their act together and make some decisions on these pending matters (like the Wedge thingy also), but I do believe that they will move when enough data has been collected....but sometimes it is best not to interfere because it might just make things worse. Perhaps the schools will take notice and move on up the beach some more.....pick some land mark like the white gum tree at Melville and schools have and manage their own area........but to take it all is just too much.
The reason there are no schools with permits at Woodies is because the powers that be will not issue permits. Woodies is a 'funny' area in that it is controlled part ny DEC & part City of Cockburn. One wont act without the other and it would appear that both prefer to put the whole issue in the 'too hard' basket.
Biggest problem though is that
1) they wont investigate & appoint the most appro no. of schools or instructors.
2) they wont police the action of those who operate there without the appro permits.
The end result is two arms of govt responsible for the administration and control of public access to the area blatantly refusing to control activity within the area which has clearly become a serious public use & safety issue.
Both bodies have been alerted to the; once potential; now very much realised danger of allowing this unauthorised activity to be conducted in the area. It is my take on it that if an 'incident' were to occur due to the activity of any kite school or instructor operating there then both DEC & the City of Cockburn are leaving themselves wide open to unlimited damages litigation for failing in what is; in every sense of the term; a 'duty of care' if not a core statutory responsibility of their accepted role in the community.
This advice has been delivered to them officially on more than one occassion by a number of orgs and private citizens. Eg myself as local shop owner; school operator; permit applicant; private area user and resident.
You cannot lay the blame on the schools &/or individuals for using the area at will, and as carelessly and irresponsibly as they like if there is NO control or authority exercised.
The really stupid thing here is that if you were to park an ice-cream truck in the end carpark & play Greensleeves over the dunes to entertain the potential customers the regularly patrolling 'community security' officers would be shutting you down within hours - along with issuing a hefty fine.
What duty of care are they exercising in this case - NONE. They are just revenue raising on a situation which doesnt happen to fall into the "too hard basket"
As for WAKSA involvement it is far from a non issue. Council & DEC have solicited WAKSA advise on how best to proceed with managing both kiting & kiting instruction in the reserve area. WAKSA has attended meetings and fielded correspondence with the same level of responsibility they always present. As far as I know they have left lines of communication open with a promise of total cooperation in offering whatever advice is appropriate. From discussions with the current WAKSA 'crew' I know they are as concerned about the sad state of affairs playing out at Woodies as they are about any area causing concern to any party.
For the local kiters now beginning to agitate I would suggest not going off half-cocked with demands or petitions that schools/instruction be banned outright but rather petition the authorities to accept their role as administrators such that only a reasonable no. of operators be allowed to share this open space and that those issued those rights be those assessed as responsibly safe and considerate in their use of the area.
Is it really that difficult for government to govern. That bureaucratic 'too hard basket' obviously has a very broad base and very low sides.
What will the excuse be when the lawyers are rattling the can, looking for the wealthiest coffers to raid.
Whose arse will be on the hot plate then simply because they chose to sit on it now - in the face of multiple warnings and advise - rather than do their job to decision make and legislate appropriately.
Well said Puppet, but just because the gov ain't gonna do nudding doesn't mean that we don't have at least pleasant instructors down there. I really don't have that much of an issue as I sort of enjoy dodging the draggers....have a good weekend.
As to this 'insurance' issue.
It is simply NOT TRUE that an organisation; eg a legitimate kite school; operating in a public area without a permit is either precluded from obtaining insurance OR that their indemnity provided by that insurance is not valid.
I know it has been touted as otherwise by many for many a long day but it simply IS NOT THE CASE.
Consider a private school running sports classes in a local National Park (as per a litigation case not so long ago).
Do they need to get a permit for conducting that activity in that space - NO
Does their insurance become null & void outside the schoolyard gate - NO
Does the governing body of the area have a responsibility to ensure that public use of the area is both appropriate, safe and reasonably well monitored and controlled - YES
The only grounds I know of where Public & Professional Liability insurance of the type my school (and all other responsible schools) hold is where the practices undertaken are lacking to a degree where negligence cuts in.
Same as every other insurance policy you can name.
Problem at Woodies is not that legitimate operators insurance is void due to not having a permit but that because it is totally uncontrolled the vast majority down there choose to be uninsured.
Thanks Gruezi.
For the record:
All Kite Surf SUP instructors are schooled in acting responsibly and courteously at all times at ALL beaches they attend. I have every faith that they are doing that at all times. They are a great crew.
My school instructors are easily identifiable by the exclusive use of the distinctive black kites with the 'cant be missed' JEEP logos. At most times they will also be wearing the co. issue Kite Surf SUP instructor rashies or 'T's.
If any local beach user - kiter or otherwise - has any gripe with any action taken by any of the KSS guys/girls by all means speak to them personally. They are all extremely responsible types who are naturally polite and open to polite comment and/or advise. BUT they have been told to IGNORE any inappropriate approaches.
Whether the instructor is spoken to directly or not I would really appreciate any concern/s being reported to me personally.
You all know where you can find me.
Had a quick read of this, a lot of people want the area and issue 'policed' - I totally agree, however, (now I may have missed this bit in my speed read) BUT imagine this..
Mr or Miss official 'sort out the cowboys' turns up at the beach.. looks and sees lots of kites, all with 'strings' 
going down to little people below the kites.. Err, who is launching and landing? Who is practicing basic moves? Who are the instructors? (especially cowboys) Who are just helping out friends? It's not like they have flashing lights on their heads...
Just a point to keep in mind I guess, we can spot them a mile away, could the non kiting public?...
Don't get me wrong, I think it's getting out of order, couldn't land my kite yesterday at location X because after dodging the body draggers the gap I found had two trainer kites, 2 instructors & 4 students flying them in waist deep water... WTF? I bet they paid money for that too!
Thats unbelievable that DEC and the council have not addressed this for so long. The longer they ignore it the harder it will be to finalise. It's not like it is any different to any other locations where they have approved kiteboarding instruction. Just look at all the schools operating in DEC sanctuary zones. As for the liability issue I hope your right about that puppet.
No problem there turtle. I have it in writing from my insurer just because they got sick of me checking with them everytime I saw a post here saying otherwise.
Negligence is the killer clause and from all reports theres heaps of that going down at Woodies. But those who are 'negligent' are probably also the ones who dont have insurance anyhow.
My advice to the locals is to harass the ass off those who persist to teach in the launch land turn zone. It is extremely bad form to bad mouth an instructor in front of the student. BUT if they are blatantly doing the wrong thing and they persist AFTER you ask quietly, politely and discreetly then go for it. Hassle away. Then the student should be alerted to the bad practice of they are a part of.
My other advise to the locals (all my old mates actually cos that was my local as well until recently) is be very careful in what you report to council and how you do it. The option of an outright ban of ALL kiting is never one thats put in that 'too hard basket'. It is a simple easy out for those in the hotseat. Last thing we need is another Mullaloo to keeping kiting open at Woodies.
Yeah well said all
This has only really come to head over the last month or so and i am really f'd of, i have kited there for the 3 years and am not that keen on it anymore, but most of the time dont have the time to drive another 20mins both ways
This being my closest and best spot is being ruined by commercial interests, its busy enough anyway let alone adding 10 students
I was lucky enough to kite there yesterday with a couple of others plus the 6-8 learners from 2-3pm. Great sesh but my gripe was with the nearest school to the launch landing zone(always the same one) not the others MOVE DOWN THE BEACH 200m would do it and dont fly the bloody trainers in the launch/land zone as you were doing yesterday
Havent had any probs with the instructors always found them pretty friendly
I wouldn't bank on my insurance working when there are no permits. I recently tried to organize a SUP race at a lonely section of beach between Trigg and Contacio's. I contacted Stirling council doing the right thing and although my event was no cost, no demo's, no prize money and basically a bunch of friends racing from the beach in the early morning, I still had to have permits and insurance to $20M and risk management etc in place.
It was not that it was a trading or "for profit" event, it was deemed an "Organized event" and I had to have permits.
If I had rocked up and gone ahead without permits and there had been an accident, my insurance wouldn't have stood up, as it would have been an unauthorized event in a public space. All the schools who claim to have insurance that will back you if you have an accident without a permit, are you really going to use the ignorance plea in court? Think again. Are your fast bucks really going to be worth it when you ruin someone's life?
Woodies Beach 1 would not be considered a safe location to teach by IKO or BKSA due to onshore winds and little beach with nice hard objects just beyond the beach.
I wonder which school will be the one to have the major accident. On the law of averages, it shouldn't be too long now. Not if, but when. Then we'll see the proverbial well and truly hit the fan. Then where will the 15 or so instructors go once they are displaced? 15+ Instructors coming to Pt Walter, Melville or Leighton. The fun continues .....
Time to get it together people. WAKSA? Time to get more involved me thinks.
DM
To puppet and others,
It was not one of your instructors that was rude to Nick AKA Greuzi. It was a "blow in" from another kiteschool. As far as Woodies beach one being a designated and ideal place to teach, I dont agree. The beach is narrow, the wind is almost directly onshore, it is crowded, and at certain times there are waves that make relaunching far from ideal for beginners, not to mention it has reef. There are instructors down there that are extremely respectful of the local riders and do the right thing, but now they have issues teaching safely due to other people "teaching".....????
Going further down the bay away from the launching landing area is one solution, yet there are better beaches 5mins North. There are very few if no swimmers, the beaches are wider and the wind is more cross-onshore, which means learning to ride not just on starboard tack is easier.
Duncan, I feel your pain.
good to here puppet you gota love bureaucratic and insurance. So if woodies isn't your local now does that mean you have become a tail wagger in the surf.
safety bay at pengo island cross shore perfect long empty beach not many people or just up a bit towards freo the next bay over coggee beach ?
Just got back from a good session.
Was happy to see so many kites out everywhere....beautiful really. All the schools were well away from the main launch and land area. I even managed to find a couple hundred meters of free shore line for a bit of a bash.
I think this is an example of this forum's usefulness. Happy kiting, I'm done......spags and red vino
There are way to many kiters around these days anyway. I think it will be best if all schools are banned, freeing up beaches and restricting the numbers of new kiters to the sport.
