eppo's cardboard wave

been waiting for ages for a second hand one to come up. saw it, drove down and picked my sister up from the airport thinking i'll have heaps of time. got home, gone.
nooooooooooooooooooo!!!!
hey eppo, i'll pay the same for the address of where i now resides.

So Eppo after multiple kite swaps you're sticking with the edges???

R they that good or have you run out of kites to try????

how's the boost compared to the core gt 7m, mine gets treated like gold i am dreading the day it dies

Eppo, Single handedly getting the kiting industry through the G.F.C.

How many kites n boards do you have eppo?

Anyways..Thinking of adding a 13 or 14m to my ozone quiver. My biggest kite is a 2012 11m C4 for my twinny days and reos under that for the surf - majority of my riding. Looking for a bigger kite for lighter winds on the pond to get me out in freeride mode.. Was thinking an edge would suit this slot for some freeride fun. You were saying the edges in bigger sizes suit more race than freeride.. At what size does you reckon this becomes apparent?

Well this is only my opinion of course maybe rusty someone who has ridden these kites for a long time might differ. But I found it was starting to lose the free ride potential in the 13. But on fast setting and let to breathe a little it was still very good. 15m I'm not so sure. That is a very high aspect flat kite the apparent wind build up would translates into racing and out pointing your opposition. Or just for an upwind meditative cruise at low or very high speeds. You'd lose a lot of the vertical dimension and turning ability for certain free ride come soft hooked in freestyle stuff. Heavier rider might be okay.

Yep the cat is also a great option. Demo both. Difference given the wind range description by djodjo you'd be lit on the C4 15m when the cat would be okay. give one a demo. I was all afraid it was just a hard core C kite the 2013. Put it on free ride it is bloody beautiful and is way better than 2012 for free ride come soft freestyle what I do, just outstanding. Got that punch and bottom end grunt that was lacking ( for me) on the C4.

Oh I have only two kites and two boards. Monk, mako king an 11 and a 9 edge. Either a c4 15m or a zephyr to complete. Waiting for the zephyr, waiting, waiting, waiting....I'm sure the production run of the C4 must be done by now, so shouldn't be long for the zephyr. We get so many marginal SH1t days down in Mandurah, while its blowing just nicely 30km north!!

Nah man if you have the 11 C4 go and demo the 15m 2013 c4 trust me you will need to take your credit card with you!!!! I'm a free ride big air soft freestyle hooked in junkie who likes maximum speed. But the C4 15m has got me frothing. Damn it Jason always knows what bloody kites to put me on. I think he's the devil.

don't you fly over 30knots eppo? why nothing smaller than a 9m?

wtf? whats going on eppo I thought that monk was the one? the way you change gear I reckon we should start calling you Imeda like the way that markos changes shoes!

No man I'm getting a 130. Bought a 132 when I was 80kg now only 74kg. I need to hold down the 11m say in 20 to 25 knots. Oh no another shinn is on the way, for sure.

Really good question buddy. Jesus I love it when we actually talk about kites and boards and not all the other sh1te, so much.

Okay everything needs to be tempered by the fact that I'm turning 40 in April. Been at this since 2000 and this sport plus football days have taken its toll. But that won't stop me, better to bust than rust. Plus I'm as ugly as a donkeys ass.

The VX is a bloody good kite, and if the above wasn't apparent, especially the ugly part, I'd probably still be riding this kite....maybe. Both kites hunt the edge of the window and are fast through the air. Both develop apparent wind, not unlike the old foils from yesterday. This is a feature I really missed with the bow revolution. Instead of using your edge and weight with minimal bar adjustments, we were forced to use the depower throw of the kite. But that was the price we paid to extend the wind range of kites. Deltas gave you more of this grunt, but sat to far back, were sketchy in their upper range, and developed their power through canopy exposure rather than apparent wind. The mix and match of bow, delta and C DNA then refigured and differentiated the market, to the point where I can safely say that I have not flown a kite lately that I cannot find a good thing about it. The kites these days are just exceptional, all of them taken the riders needs into account.

Right, they both move fast and hunt the edge of the window. But the VX is far more aggressive at doing this. This is a function of its SLE DNA and very short depower throw combined with a high aspect. The use of pulleys on this kite still gives a remarkable direct feel, but you cannot diminish that spongy feel completely. Also the movement through the air is very quick and can give a more jerky ride...but this is all relative to the edge.

The edges builds much more apparent wind, but it does it in such a controlled and smooth fashion. Under the right rider, especially on old school prick like me, this gives you the ultimate in control of kite board and kite speed. This creates the ability to take the edge out in very high winds even at my weight, control speed then let the speed run and build in a controlled fashion before a boost. This apparent wind pull also and this may be a shock to some, creates a bloody good kite in the surf on a TT. On a SB is would suck cok, but that smooth consistent pull really allows for a strong heel side bottom turn with a somewhat vertical cutback/reentry which the kite then pulls you back through. Also this pull creates a consistent down the line, park and ride ability on a wave. The edge drifts better than most think. Remember this is for TT riding only. The VX is more short and sharp, you can easily ride under it, it can stall and I have dropped this kite out the air. The edge, no chance. The VX shines when dead onshore as it is so fast around the window, but any cross shore it starts to become manageable but not great.

Okay this leads to boosting. Both are technical kites to jump and get the most out of them, but in a very different way. The VX require almost a bow technique, from low with a very aggressive send. In the air because of its very short depower through, you need to fly actively move this kite through the air or you can drop. But get it right and it takes you aggressively vertical and big big big! Also fly it right and redirect it right with a downloop ( this is a given with this kite on a massive jump), a very soft landing indeed.

The edge, you need to create intense speed and keep it much higher in the window, then you needn't move it a great deal. If you aggressively send the edge it loses kite speed and hence height and also takes you downwind, you will pendulum under the kite. To go vertical it really only needs to be moved, although quickly to 12 o'clock, keep your shoulder pointing in the direction you are going, the kites momentum will then take it to 1 o'clock. The jump doesn't rip you off the water except in extreme conditions, it is more like a paraglider effect. It softly takes you up and up and looooonnnnng. The VX cannot compete with the edge on actual hang, air time. You needn't actively fly it as much, except if you go stratospheric. The downloop helps, but not necessary most of the time. For instance crew on the beach have said when I'm about a couple of metres above the water and redirect, you get this long horizontal movement parallel to the ocean surface before you land.

In summary I think someone said the edge is a gentlemans kite. The VX is a killing race car machine.

The VX asks the rider to ride extremely aggressively. You can't pussy out on the loops either or it will spank you for being a farqen wimp. But dear god loop it does. The edge loops better than most give it credit for and you have surprising control of the loop, even mid loop. If ya too hot you can depower this kite somewhat to take the heat off. The VX is all or nothing relative.

Also the edge gives me that direct feel, the only thing I missed from my north kites when riding the VX. The engineers have done an outstanding job with creating a SLE kite that is so direct in the VX, but you can't get completely immune to that spongy pulley feel in the steering. It is the steering that suffers, there is that slight delay and bang! The edge ( and the norths) have very direct steering, which I prefer.

But recently I have ridden the new Cat, the C4, the wainman smoke, punch and boss, the reo, the rally, the lithium, the epic screamer, even had some sessions on the 2012 rebel and Vegas. Plus a few others I can't be bothered writing down.

They all have their pros and cons. They all are fantastic kites.

Each rider needs to search until they find the kite that suites them. Sometimes it takes its financial toil as with me.

Also I feel sometimes the question we ask is the wrong one. Ask yourself, given a set of kites in a certain market, what is the kite asking of me. Rather than trying to make a kite fly like you want it to, get in tune with the kite and ask how is it asking me to ride. It is a bit of both but my problem was asking the kite to fly as I wanted it to fly. This creates conflict.

Hope this helps, only my opinion of course.

Absolute classic advice Eppo - unfortunate fact here is that it is a virtual 'mission impossible' to be able to organise circumstances where you can:
1) find out how each different kite flys at its best
and then
2) actually come to realise what 'best' characteristics are the one for you.

Kiters tend to consider the kite they own is the best there is purely & simply because they learn how to fly THAT particular kite. A short session on a demo or mates kite only points out how the way you have learnt to fly YOUR kite doesnt give the best performance from any other one. This can be the case even if all the tech specs of the 2 kites seem to be identical.
We have evolved into the age of subtle differences.
As you say - and I always say sometimes too - all the established kite brands are now making excellent kites. The Grail search for the established kiter is to find out which 'excellent kite' suits the demands of your own style.

A few reasons -

In general, the Cats are a bit perkier this year - a bit more C in the arc and slightly bigger tube sizes so top-end stability is enhanced as is the looping performance.

At the low end, I wanted a lighter wind option with snappier relaunch than the C4 (I do often kite alone, and in marginal conditions, so if it drops off from light to very light I want the kite to roll onto its wingtip very easily) that will also be adequate for working on some unhooked stuff. The 14m Catalyst fits the bill well. And it boosts large when powered.

At the high end I wanted an 8, and something a little more sedate than a C4. My right knee is going pretty well 18 months after half the meniscus was removed but it still reminds me occasionally that it's not quite 100%, and never will regain the resilience it used to have. Both my ankles sustained significant ligament injuries in my windsurfing career and I've also damaged cartilage in my left one kiting. I love the precision of the C4s, but when its about 30 knots, I'm accepting that a bit more depower at the bar and lower-aspect-related softer landings may help preserve my joints. Hence, the 8m Catalyst.

In the middle I really need more time to tell whether I'll stick with the 10m Catalyst or switch it out to an 11m C4. There's no doubt the Cats do everything pretty darned well. There's also no doubt that they won't match the sense of satisfaction I get from a perfectly timed "big boost into sweeping downloop transition into full-speed precision landing with honking rooster-tail as I carve back to a beam reach" that the C4s offer. When I get everything just right with the C4s they are so damned rewarding, and it's in this mid range, the 18-24 knot sweet spot days, where perhaps I can afford to not get it exactly right all the time and the Catalyst may be a bit too easy? I'm undecided. I'll keep y'all posted.

I think the 14m catalyst would be a good light wind option as dojo mentioned its dependable relaunch, I also reckon its light weight will be an advantage in marginal conditions. Saw some guys with boots riding a 10m cat yesterday.. They looked to be enjoying it..

OK, a few more sessions under my belt now so review to come shortly.