While having a surf at Granite /Noosa this morning I watched a 57 yo guy had a heart attack get saved
Fortunately there was boat beside the break - two surfer dragged him into the boat and started CPR they drove straight to lifesavers at Main beach - 2.5 km away who were able to revive him with the defibribulator - machine
The two guys definately saved this guys life by doing cpr till he got to the lifesavers -
It made me think its been awhile since I did a cpr course-
So time for me to do a refresher -
It would suck pulling a mate from the water and not having the skills to help him.
The guy is in a stable condition in hospital tonite - he is so lucky that the boat was there and those guys had the skills to keep him going
As an electrician we use to have to do a refresher course every 6months.
We were told by the instructors that (and this is pretty f@cked) if there is someone else around that can do CPR, let them do it,dont be a hero as there have been many times that the person trying to help have done more damage than good and have ended up in the sh!t.
Its so wrong that someone trying to save someones life the best they can , can end up in court and getting fined.
Everyone should know basic CPR, not hard to learn, even reading how to do it on the net is better than having no idea at all. but a proper lesson is cheap and quick to learn. Most surfclubs will be more than happy to give you a run down on what to do.
I've been teaching First Aid since '91 and conduct courses for St. John Ambo on the side. If you've never done a CPR course or you haven't done one in 12 months, do yourself a favour and book a slot on one. I've performed actual resus and all I can say is that IT WORKS!
Re: rescue breathing; the current standard is that it is optional. If you are unwilling or unable to give rescue breaths, then just perform chest compressions. At the end of the day, if efforts to resuscitate are unsuccessful, then the victim was no worse off than before you had provided resus.
Another angle here is it becomes easier to convince local councils and authorities that, although there is an element of risk in practicing our beloved sport on public beaches, by undergoing First Aid training, we are more safety-conscious. It also looks pretty darn good on one's CV when job-hunting.
Not claiming to be an expert and I have never done a real life resus, but there are a few things to think about with resus. Cave man maybe able to clarify, as I've heard these comments from the last three St John instructors I've had for my refreshers.
Firstly being trained in resus dosen't instantly mean you are going to save someones life. In fact the average is about 93% will notbe successful, mainly due to the fact CPR can't always commence asap. For every prolonged minute the chances of survival are reduced by 10%. Another contributing factor is that administers of CPR rarely use the correct force, for compressions to be fully effective you virtually will be breaking ribs.
I'm starting to feel like Bruce McAvany here, but another stat that's been thrown around is that a difibrillation increases survival rate by double, taking it to around 15% on average instead of around 7%.
CPR procedure has changed a fair bit, if you haven't done a refresher in the last 2 or 3 years then you will be surprised. The compression rates and breaths have changed and the introduction of Defib also changes things. On the last one I went to even the coma position has been modified.
Thanks for sharing Bruce, very important.
my 2 cents..
As an ambulance paramedic who has done hepas of resus jobs, here's a few guidelines...
Something is better than nothing... if you choose not do to mouth to mouth thats your choice but at least do chest compressions...
Do those compressions HARD and fast.. i would rather wake up with fractured ribs than not wake up at all..
CPR will not save someone by itself (some rare exceptions), CPR keep the heart viable for defibrillation which is what it needs..
It takes a lot of courage to step in there and start CPR, its physically demanding ( but adrenaline is wonderful to keep you going) and you CAN make a difference..
Be safe
First day I arrived at work in Australia for a project a guy fell over and had a heart attack at 7am in the morning while only 3 of us were in the office. Normally there would be no one there but we were there early because we wanted to do prep for our first day at the customer. One of the guys with us knew CPR due to a compulsory management course that had been completed about a week earlier at their mine site. Ambulance was on the spot within 8 minutes in rush hour in Melbourne central and with the combination of the pre-ambulance CPR and the paramedics. 3 ribs were broken during CPR which is apparently a good thing - the scary part is the guy was only 35 with no symptoms.
Apparently only 10% of people every survive which is a startlingly low statistic, probably escalated by the lack of general CPR knowledge in most offices although I'm sure this is probably increased by those who have a heart attack when no one is around to help. It was the biggest wake up call I've ever experienced and I ended up taking CPR lessons because if that one person hadn't been with us, I don't know what I would have done. Its a horrible position to be in when you are sitting there helpless and all you can do to assist is phone the paramedics and then call out their instructions over the phone. I also have the utmost respect for the paramedics who arrived, were completely calm under pressure and the circumstances, and managed to get his heart beating again and stabilise him before taking him in. He underwent open heart surgery and was back in the office within a couple of months.
I am 24 now and was a junior lifesaver "nipper" from the age of 5 through to becoming a surf life saver. I was told by my parents that i wasnt allowed to surf by myself at our holiday spot on the south coast (an unpatrolled beach) unless i stayed with nippers until finishing at the age of 14. I left surf life saving to pursue surfing and soccer around that age. From the age of 13 till 20, when we sold our caravan, myself and a few mates pulled at least 30+ people out of rips. Generally 5-10 every summer as the crowd on this beach would be around 1000 people on a hot shcool holidays day. When i was 16 i was out surfing with 2 mates when a few kids were sucked off the back of a sandbar about 100 metres away from where we were surfing. We took the kids in on our boards and one of the girls aged about 8 was crying and saying her dad was still out there. The father had tried to swim out and help the kids, who were all still holding onto 1 bodyboard. We took the kids down the coast 50 metres and paddled in through the waves rather than straight back in against the rip. I paddled back out with a mate thinking the girl had it all wrong and her father must be on the shore somewhere. We were wrong and found him a metre underwater out cold. He was a big bloke and it took us about 15 minutes to get him in. We struggled to keep him on a board so we couldnt try resus in the water. my board was a 5'10' and he was im guessing about 120Kg and i was about 65Kg at the time. When we got to the shore i was F*cked because i was swimming with the legrope on and my mate was holding this bloke on my board. At the shore my mate started CPR and a few other blokes ran over to help. i left the beach after 30 mins of CPR/resus, my mate is still pretty f*cked up over it, he had to continue CPR for an hour because you cant stop CPR until someone has called him dead, when the chopper arrived. If you have kids and live anywhere near the beach get them into nippers. Im not as strong a swimmer as i was at 18 but i never find myself in trouble and il surf in over 6ft, nippers will teach you how to read the beach and mainly 'how to stay calm'. Ive had more than 1 person try to drown me because they cant stay afloat and panic. what you learn in nippers will save someones life, its just a matter of when. Ive pulled people out of the water 20 metres from the shore in 2m deep water and they were in alot of ****. I cant stress enough how safe the beach can be if you've been taught about it. Send your kids to nippers and breath easy
I trained to be an RN a few years ago and got told the same thing throughout my course.
It seems pretty backwards so I don't know what to believe. If what I was taught is true (I haven't read the actual laws on this and don't know how far you can trust a first aid training courses website) then you can be sued for trying to treat people above your level of knowledge. Does this include trying to give CPR if you haven't done a first aid course?
I think 99% of the population would be grateful to come out of that situation alive. I know if my heart stopped beating I'd prefer for someone to stamp on my chest with their feet than do nothing at all.
And bringing someone back is the one of the most awesome things in the world. I'm sure the paramedics on here have done it countless times and are probably used to it, I've only done it a couple of times and gotta say that look on someone's face when they open their eyes and ask what the f&*k is going on is priceless.
From doing outdoorsy type stuff, the version of the story I heard was that you could not be sued for starting resuscitation, but you can be sued (by the family) for stopping without someone legally able to declare someone dead making that call.
Then again that might be an urban legend, and I am sure that you could defend yourself with a reasonableness defence.
Yeah,at our courses they say that you can only stop resus like you said above,
or you are totally exausted and unable to continue.
This might be totally wrong, but I heard you can't sue for someone who is dead? For example say you stopped resus and the person died, you can't be sued by a family member for death of the person. Or your son got run over by a car, you can't sue the driver for loss of life? True or not?
