Could it ever work ? has it ever worked ?
I have seen adds for shares in boats and always wondered how it holds together .
My thoughts are, a 50 - 60 foot sailing vessel .
The syndicate would need an administrator , not me !
Possibly even a live aboard manager , not me ....yet !
In a marina in a good Holliday / cruising area .
Using the examples in the other thread, say purchase price of 150000 , 10 people @ 15000
2000 every year x 10 = 20000 in maintainance fund annually .
Ongoing running costs marina berth ? Say 5000 .... 500 each
2500 per Year for an absolute nightmare or some good sailing holidays ?
Remember this is on top of your existing costs of your boat at your home area .
Would this be absolute maddness or just a gang of fun times ?
Time share NO.
Syndicate YES.
There has been time share done on shagged out real estate which has only benefited the ones selling the time shares and the same thing has been tried on one 65 foot ex air sea rescue boat back in the 80s that I know of.
It was a con job that would have resulted in selling the boat for 10 times it's value. As far as I know it crashed.
Over the years there have been successful syndicates and many more I believe unsuccessful syndicates. The difference has to have been the basis on which they were set up.
If it was casual where it sounded like a good idea at the time so let's buy the boat and have a whale of a time, it is bound to fall apart.
If it is formalised where the syndicate members are bound to legal and fiscal responsibilities, there is a good chance of success in the endeavour.
The main rule of boat ownership is to NEVER let your boat/s ownership EVER represent more than 10% of your nett financial worth.
So membership of the syndicate would require a verified statement of assets and liabilities, income and expenditures. Nothing less would suffice.
The next qualifiers are passion and commitment which are hard to quantify but could be measured in face to face meets and cash on the table.
The legal structure of a syndicate is already established in law like a body corporate, companies etc. for which the main requirement is to have an Annual General Meeting and set a budget for the following year. Simple stuff really.
Ten members I believe is far too many for a yacht syndicate. Seven at the most, three is the minimum and possibly the best but five might be very workable. An odd number is good to prevent deadlocks in voting.
Your thoughts:-
My thoughts are, a 50 - 60 foot sailing vessel .
The syndicate would need an administrator , not me !
Possibly even a live aboard manager , not me ....yet !
In a marina in a good Holiday / cruising area .
Using the examples in the other thread, say purchase price of 150000 ,
Are very similar to mine except for the numbers and my comments below.
The syndicate would need an administrator , not me !
The term is treasurer and you would have to take your turn if elected to that position or it may be chairman or secretary. Three executive members are required by legislation and natural law.
Possibly even a live aboard manager , not me ....yet !
Also at which you will have to take your turn as circumstances dictate not law. The term is "Ship's Master" which does not require living aboard but does require a keen sense of vigilance which would be enhanced by your closest living proximity to the vessel.
This of course is where "passion and commitment" really shine.
Below is the type and price of yacht with which I think this concept could work. The syndicate should not rely on the commercial possibilities of operating it as a charter vessel. I have been in that game. It is very competitive and if the vessel is profitable, why would they be selling it for this price. It most probably needs the same amount spent on it.http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=13133122
I didn't think it was that good. Just tried to cover the main bases.
There are a bunch of other considerations too. If the syndicate members all lived in the same area it would have a good chance of working but if they were scattered over the country I doubt it.
nope... no it was a great response Cisco! ![]()
A mate of mine has been in a 6 way syndicate for several years at $6k per share on a Duncanson yacht.
He has had a good experience with the exception of one member who has now sold out. I think they were just lucky though as I don't think they had any mechanism for getting rid of the problem member.
Yes , great reply Cisco.
I agree with everything you say there , the unfortunate part of your reply is the part about 10 being too many . But you are probally correct .
Using the the 150000 figure , the difference between 15000 plus 2000 p/a maintainance and say 300000 plus 4000 is significant ( it's also double )
Especially when some people may be running another home based yacht .
Two more things ..... What do you think about the estimate of 20000 P/a as a maintainence budget on a good 150000 sv ?
And ....
Here's a promo for 10 partners instead of five ...... A Sailing vessel of 55 to 60 foot would more than likely need a crew of at least four or five ,say.
What are the chances of all partners being able to sail at the same time during the year ?
Even taking into account the single part owner bringing some ringin crew with him . I guess your model of five owners is assuming that the five owners have their own crew , ie mates ![]()
I am usually wrong ....but
in some ways having 10 invested crew may be benificial .For finding crew / mates to sail with ?
What Are your thoughts on this ?
Have a look at a company called Sail Time. They are one of the new breed of time share companies who run similar syndicates to what you're thinking. The difference being, that they look after the whoe thing for you. For a fee of course.
There are two options. You buy a share in a boat for a year, which gives you as many days aboard as your money dictates, or you buy the boat and share it with some other sai time share holders.
If you can prove you can finance a boat outright, you set up the syndicate with Sail Time and they make certain guarantees that you'll be covered for your fincance. They do all the cleaning,
maintenance and sevice on the boat. You, being the owner have choice of prime sailing days, and you get the same amount of time per year as the members.
They only do new boats, and prefer Hanse, Beneteau, Lagoon etc, but at the end of the five year plan, you have a 5 year old boat all to yourself for a fraction of the cost of buying it on your own. At the end of the five years, you either sell it, or put it into charter/share again.
Worth a look if you are thinking about some kind of boat share plan.
Of course, it's not for everyone, and some may think its snake oil, but don't judge until you have done your own research.
Disclaimer - I have no affiliation with any company who offers these services.
The best ideas are the ones that the wife doesn't like .
When told about the plan to retire too the sea , I was confronted with " so your planning to retire on your own !"
That was where I utilised your idea of FIFO guests ![]()
When you have a core crew who are committed to doing the whole trip and having a whale of a time The FIFO stands for Female Invitees are Fine Ogling and Fecking Intransigents can Feck Off.
Seriously though, it must not be an all male thing. The presence of the fairer sex keeps things more refined and civilised.
I read a fine pictorial essay many years ago called "Sailing Free Around the World" by the renowned photographer Laurie Le Guy.
That was done aboard a beautiful 40 foot Allan Payne yacht called Eclipse which unfortunately is rusting away in the Maryborough Slipway yard now.
If you can get hold of that book and get your wife to read it, she might gain a different perspective.![]()
A yacht like Apollo III would a very exciting yacht to do it on but would need the numbers to make it work, definitely a minimum 5.
I think the owners of this yacht did a similar thing and it would be quite suitable for a syndicate of 3. Only $25,000 each to buy and then the on goings which would be proportionately less.
It would have to be a performance yacht and ex racing yachts have lots of room and make great fast cruising yachts.http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=12625475
WHOOPS!!!!
I have just spotted this one again. Last time I saw it price was $45,000.
I had one of these yachts. A Peterson 42 called ENVY II and they are amazing yachts.
SUNBURST needs the rod rigging replaced with wire but if the hull, engine and equipment are sound, this is a bargain at $25,000. Look at the room below. That foc'sle would convert into a great hole for foxes.![]()
The Buhk should probably be replaced with a Kubota 43 hp. With a clean bottom it would push this yacht along at 9 knots. It did on my old yacht. With refrigeration should cost around $15,000. Rigging and sails say another $15,000 so for $55,000 you have a hot yacht ready to go.http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=10457348
Cisco , those yachts are a lot of SV for not much money !!! The 44 is magnificent .
Someone will snap that up if she has a good engine and no major dramas .
The 40 would be a great purchase . 25k unberfreakinglevable .
Prices here seem to be almost on a parr with the US .
Yes if she is timber 75 is top dollar .... To much painting!
Plastic fantastic fo me !
Did you have any trouble with electrolysis with the aluminium hulls inside or outside?
What did you anti foul her with ? I have heard story's of the use of chilli powder being mixed in with the paint .
For any one looking for a bargain , have look at the Adams 12 " free style 11 " on Boats on sale .com . Sort carnt post links with I fad .
Absolute loverly yacht .
Would be a good one for the syndicate to Cisco ! Ready to go wind vane and all !