Anyone have a general idea of what the tension should be on a tophat mark 1?
About to put mast back up.
Thanks!
This is a basic way to tension a rig.
1. Make sure all the rigging screws are greased.
2. Stand the rig and nip up the caps (side stays) making sure the mast is straight up and down from side to side.
3 Sit the fore stay to the required amount of mast rake required.( With a rig of that size I would think about 300mm)
4. Now nip up the lowers ensuring the mast stays straight. The tension on the caps and lowers should be enough to hold the mast quite firm.
5. Now you need to take the boat for a sail in about 18 knots of breeze. Sail the boat to windward. The leeward caps and lowers will now be loose, tighten both the caps and lowers until you just take out the slack. In doing so you must count the number of turns you put on the rigging screws.
6. Tack the boat over and crank down the new leeward screws the same number of turns.
7 The back stay should initially be set reasonably firm. After setting the side stays crank the back stay down while sailing to windward in the 18 knots of breeze until there is about 50mm of fore stay sage. PS. I am assuming you have inline spreaders and not swept backs.
After a few sails in reasonable wind you will need to re-tighten.
Hope this will help.
Select to expand quoteJode5 said..
3 Sit the fore stay to the required amount of mast rake required.( With a rig of that size I would think about 300mm)
No way Jode, the design rake for a Top Hat is 150 mm.
Select to expand quotenswsailor said..
Jode5 said..
3 Sit the fore stay to the required amount of mast rake required.( With a rig of that size I would think about 300mm)
No way Jode, the design rake for a Top Hat is 150 mm.
Yes, I was not sure of their rake. A lot of older boats carry very little rake. His existing forestay will dictate the rake
Select to expand quote Jode5 said..
5. Now you need to take the boat for a sail in about 18 knots of breeze. Sail the boat to windward. The leeward caps and lowers will now be loose, tighten both the caps and lowers until you just take out the slack. In doing so you must count the number of turns you put on the rigging screws.
6. Tack the boat over and crank down the new leeward screws the same number of turns.
To elaborate a little more on the 18 knots of wind, Its better to convert the wind speed to an angle of heel. Take your boat out in 18 knots and have enough sail up to give you eg: 20 deg of heel. Heel angle will give you the base at to which you make your adjustments. Heel angle is true indicator of load on the rig where as wind speed isn't.
Select to expand quoteSectorsteve said..
Anyone have a general idea of what the tension should be on a tophat mark 1?
About to put mast back up.
Thanks!
Make it fairly tight. Just follow the directions above but ensure it is tight. Most damage to rigging is caused at the mooring by the constant movement.
Folding rule idea sounds interesting.
Once you set the rig up and start sailing again expect to retension the whole rig when as you will find it will stretch in.
Select to expand quoteRiffRaff said..
Has anybody tried the 2m folding rule method suggested by selden
Never used that method, I have always used a loos gauge. Another one is the RigStick.
Brian Toss often talks about them ( similar to the 2m rule)
Thanks again gentlemen. Ive got a loos gauge. Watched some vids and have some idea but never used it. Yes i thought for the tophat it should have a rake about a masts width. With new pins , backstays ,a few new turnbuckles, masthead sheaves and halyard exit sheaves ,new spreader plus some new blocks up top i feel a bit better about the rig. Im hoping ill notice a difference ! One of those things where you feel the difference but dont see it!
Thanks a lot for the tips JodE. I will be doing all that!
Only thing is grease. I've used grease before on traveller and cars and it's just a magnet for grit so this time I'm using a spray on Teflon lube. (Forget what ts called, black can, something lube?)
IMHO I would be using something better than teflon on the threads of the turnbuckles. I have used and still use Never-Seize (or similar), minimal amount goes a long long way but Stainless Steel will gall if decent lubricant not used.
It may be good material but Stainless does not like running against itself under loads/friction without decent lube. An engineers perspective
Select to expand quotedkd said...
IMHO I would be using something better than teflon on the threads of the turnbuckles. I have used and still use Never-Seize (or similar), minimal amount goes a long long way but Stainless Steel will gall if decent lubricant not used.
It may be good material but Stainless does not like running against itself under loads/friction without decent lube. An engineers perspective
Good stuff dkd. Ill be sure to put marine grease? On them before the mast goes up. Good to get these tips before
Select to expand quoteSectorsteve said..
Thanks a lot for the tips JodE. I will be doing all that!
Only thing is grease. I've used grease before on traveller and cars and it's just a magnet for grit so this time I'm using a spray on Teflon lube. (Forget what ts called, black can, something lube?)
You are only using the grease to stop galling. You can use grease on better still Tef Gel or Never seize. When finished you clean off any excess.
Interesting thread. My leeward shrouds flop around like crazy when my Spacesailer is heeled over in a decent breeze. It sounds like I'll have to give the rigging screws a few extra turns.
The previous owner of my vessel ziptied black flexible electrical conduit over my rigging screws to protect the sails from the s/s split pins and there is already surface rust showing. I'm going to slide some oversized hard conduit over the screws when I do my tensioning.
Select to expand quoteAshleyM said..
Interesting thread. My leeward shrouds flop around like crazy when my Spacesailer is heeled over in a decent breeze. It sounds like I'll have to give the rigging screws a few extra turns.
The previous owner of my vessel ziptied black flexible electrical conduit over my rigging screws to protect the sails from the s/s split pins and there is already surface rust showing. I'm going to slide some oversized hard conduit over the screws when I do my tensioning.
if you can find it some like lanolin tape would be good over rigging screws
I use denso tape at work but that's a grease tape corrosion preventative its a cloth impregnated with grease. Its great stuff seen it underwater and pit slury for over 5 years the threads were like new when I removed the old tape
HgO2: would that tape not deprive the s/s rigging screws of oxygen and caaue corrosion? Or does the tape breath sufficiently?
Select to expand quoteAshleyM said..
HgO2: would that tape not deprive the s/s rigging screws of oxygen and caaue corrosion? Or does the tape breath sufficiently?
I can remember reading an article about it many years ago the reason it was wrapped in lanolin was to protect and preserve the swag and rigging screw from corrosion. Probably read from a collection Cruising Helmsman. As my previous wife land locked me 
Select to expand quoteAshleyM said..
HgO2: would that tape not deprive the s/s rigging screws of oxygen and caaue corrosion? Or does the tape breath sufficiently?
Stainless steel corrosion occurs in a corrosive environment,, enhanced in a low oxygen environment. If you wrapped it up in a corrosion inhibitor to protect it from the corrosive elements, even though oxygen cant get to it the corrosion inhibitor will protect it.
If you take a piece of stainless and put it in a vacuum it wont just start corroding because there is no air.
You do have to watch that the inhibitor that you are going to protect it with has a neutral PH.,,, for example some silicons have an acidic cure and some things like tape and grease can absorb corrosive elements from their environment..,
I am in the stainless steel industry and I can not see why anybody would want to wrap a stainless steel fitting. If the stainless is that poor that it is rusting away, you don't want it on the boat. Stainless can rust on a weld if it has not been pickled (treated with acid). This is a dead give away that something has been welded by a handyman. Stainless is easily cleaned with diluted hydrochloric acid or Ronstan gel coat restorer. Stainless can crack, so if it is open you stand a chance of seeing a crack starting which can be seen as a fine rust line. You can have problems with 304 stainless wire it it is under salt water or continuously being doused in salt water. Make sure all wire is 316 grade.
Select to expand quoteHG02 said..
AshleyM said..
HgO2: would that tape not deprive the s/s rigging screws of oxygen and caaue corrosion? Or does the tape breath sufficiently?
I can remember reading an article about it many years ago the reason it was wrapped in lanolin was to protect and preserve the swag and rigging screw from corrosion. Probably read from a collection Cruising Helmsman. As my previous wife land locked me
Perhaps the article read the lanolin was wrapped on the wire and swag only it was in the eighties when I read the article
