Wire or rope halyards?

Experiences? Opinions? About to re-do the running rigging on my Triton.

Rope, but you will probably have to replace the pulley's in the mast head as the wire ones will be to narrow.

So would similar sized 100% dyneema be ok?

Definitely rope.

Unless your trying to reduce the diameter or are a hardcore racer then 100% dyneema is overkill.

Spectra is adequate

Fortunately I've got the mast down at the moment so it'll be no hassle to check the pulleys! I imagine it is important to ensure the pulleys are nice and smooth. I was thinking dyneema as I could use a similiar diameter to the original wire. Agree with the comment about small rope chopping into one's hands - I'll investigate Spectra with bigger pulleys

Hi Chris

When i bought my Sailmaster a couple of years ago i had the main and head sail wire/double braid halyards replaced with 8mm Dyneema as the splice between the two was ratty and used to jam in the mast exit box when dropping the sails

I probably should have looked at the style and condition of the sheaves but i didn't at the time and so far it is all working ok and there doesn't appear to be any obvious wear on the Dyneema

I also used the same Dyneema for the vang

I have halyard winches on the base of the mast and the 8mm is a reasonable size to handle but i don't think i would want to go any smaller

I also replaced the ratty 12mm double braid main sheet with some new 10mm i had laying about at the time but i think i might go back to 12mm as the 10mm is a bit hard to handle in in my application

Regards Don

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nswsailor said..

seabird said..
My main halyard is 10mts wire and 12m rope. When the sail is raised the wire stops just out from the base of the mast.
Works fine no problem with rubbing

When I replace it I will go to all rope to avoid the wire/rope connection.

May still need to replace your pulleys. You need to go up and check the sizes before committing.

Your rope will be torn apart other wise.

That is a given which we should all understand. The best time to convert is when the mast is down at which time you spend what you have to spend to get the whole of the rig set up for the next 10 years of use, ie do the lot, sheaves, mast head fittings, standing and running rigging.

There are however particular requirements with rope halyards at the ends. I am led to believe that spectra/dyneema will most likely fail if just knotted to a shackle.

I would like to know more about eyes and splices in multi-strand synthetic line.

Hey all,

Firstly, strictly speaking dyneema and spectra are the same thing, different brands but.........
Now days the terms have turned into dyneema being the uncovered product which is treated to handle UV (5 years in full exposure), chafe etc, and spectra is dyneema cored rope with a polyester cover but the dyneema core has usually not been treated the same way and doesn't stand up as well in the sun or handle chafe as well.
Dyneema is used for replacing wire in halyards, backstays, vang strops etc.

Often when replacing wire for halyards (which i have just done on my Etchells) I use 6mm spectra with a dyneema tip of 4mm spliced in. In my case the mast length is 10m (keel stepped with main halyard coming out of the mast base underdeck) so I have made a tip length of 10m so the thicker 6mm spectra never goes through the top sheave, only the bigger sheave at the mast base. The only issue can be if you reef then you may have to look at the top sheave, but you'd be surprised what size spectra you can get around that sheave easily.

The other reason I prefer this is the brummel spliced loop at the end of the dyneema is still fairly small and flexible, where as if you go a full spectra spliced loop then you end up with a big stiff part of rope which make the last 2 feet of the sail very hard to pull up.

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Ramona said..
Looking at a flash yacht locally here a few weeks ago with Dyneema standing rigging and carbon fibre mast and boom. 50 footer. I hope they get longer than 5 years out of the rigging.

That could be Dynex rather than Dyneema. Hopefully.

It is 5 years but once you learn to splice it yourself (easy to learn and about $100 of tools needed) you only have to buy the new Dyneema and you can re-use all the fittings.
If you are replacing your S/S wires every 10 years it can come out cheaper, depending on how much your doing yourself in the S/S replacement.

Thank you Frant. All that is just what I wanted to know.

Next question:- If I use 10 mm double braid for my halyards, will it suffice to attach snap shackles to the end using a bowline with the tail of the line whipped with sail twine to the bight of the knot???

Thanks in advance.

As frant says they are both made of the same material but one look at the breaking strain for the same diameter will tell you they are not just different brands.

8mm spectra 3300kg
8mm dyneema (SK-75) 6600kg

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cisco said..

Thank you Frant. All that is just what I wanted to know.

Next question:- If I use 10 mm double braid for my halyards, will it suffice to attach snap shackles to the end using a bowline with the tail of the line whipped with sail twine to the bight of the knot???

Thanks in advance.

Cisco, I would suggest that you buy a set of fids, do some googling of splicing of double braid and high tech lines. For double braid the snake swallows itself and comes out of its anal orifice and miraculously an eye with the outer case is formed. It is good fun and with new rope for its flexibility and ability to be milked on itself is an art form. Someone previously posted their first attempts and did a really good job. Bit of practice and you get the eye size down pat.

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FreeRadical said..
I use a halyard hitch. its neat and compact, which is good for halyards.

That would be one of these then???

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frant said..
Actually Cisco I would go for a 2 to 1 halyard of 8mmm on your boat for the main halyard. More rope but you finish up with less weight aloft. I am probably a rope Nazi as I will not tolerate frayed, bleached, or poorly whipped and spliced lines. Step on a boat, look at lines and you can make an instant judgement of the owner!

I had 2:1 halyards on my second yacht which was a Spencer Adrian. Timber mast with external halyards.

All the halyards on Second Wind are internal so I don't think 2:1 halyards are possible. What I am considering is taking the main halyard (stbd side) and the port jib halyard away from the cockpit and onto winches that I fit to the mast. Due to the existing halyard exit positions and not wanting to weaken the mast with more exit slots, I would run the halyards from their existing exit slots down to the turning blocks at the mast base and back up to self tailing halyard winches.

I already have an Anderson 28 two speed self tailing winch that I bought a few years ago for $250 plus I have a pair of Barlow 16 or 18s the same as the existing winches back on the rear of my coach roof (single speed non self tailing).

The thought is to use the existing winches and clutches for reefing and trimming lines only and have dedicated halyard winches on the mast.





I have three larger turning blocks either side of the mast which carry spinnaker halyard, jib halyard and out haul port side and main halyard, other jib halyard and spinnaker pole topper stbd side. Two smaller turning blocks are shackled to stbd for boom topper and spin pole kicker as I recall.


There are no lines in the boom yet for the two mainsail reefs so some rearrangement at the mast base is definitely needed with two more turning blocks.


Stbd side clutches, control lines and winch.

And port side. Though smallish, these winches seem to be adequate for halyard tension on this yacht.

Cisco, You can run 2-1 halyards internally. I fitted 6mm double braid spectra to my Noelex 30. Halyard runs as normat but to a special halyard shackle that is effectively a block and then return to the mast crane. My First 44.7 has dynex Dyneema racing halyards with 2-1 on the main. For cruising I use the original Beneteau ropes which are regular double braid with a single purchase on main. It's just a question of mousing the halyards. Again if the snap shackles are spliced and the end whipped with a outer cover loop changing and removing halyards is straight forward. Ie one doesn't leave halyards rigged if the boat is not going to be used for say several weeks as that has a massive saving in uv life of high tech ropes.