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Camless BIG Sails...model names needed

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Created by nosinkanow > 9 months ago, 27 Feb 2010
nosinkanow
NSW, 441 posts
28 Feb 2010 1:28AM
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Picked up the Kona One/Style this morning, unfortunately it was around 1-2 knots and pity there was a nice break at the back which would have been ideal for this board.

I've only got small wavesails with the largest 5.8. To get more sailing time I reckon I need 7.0, with my 100kg weight probably larger like an 8.0. I feel I would benefit more with camless sails as I'll be longboard wavesailing this board. Without consultation with anyone I just guessed that cams are just going to break when dumped even in small wave applications. Research tells me that I can depower a camless sail quicker than a cammed sail which is preferable, I've never owned a cammed sail, let alone bigger than a 6.1, so don't know from experience if this depowering is true.

Trouble is because I have returned to the sport from a near 2 decade break I don't know the model names of sails that are camless. I'm specifically looking at sails more than 5+ years old as newer ones are still out of my financial reach.

Can anyone please give me some model names to look up. Better still if you are updating your old big sail please contact me if you want to flog off yours, be warned I'm looking for a cheap sail.

Thanks.

Ellobuddha
NSW, 625 posts
28 Feb 2010 9:08AM
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Brand: Loft
Model : O2
Style: Freeride

Great camless sails. Plenty of shape, plenty of Xply for strength. Good speed. GREAT PRICE. I've got a 6.6 and a 7.4. 7.4 doesnt feel very big at all once it gets some wind into it and it will rig on a 460 mast.

They are great value for money and far cheaper for a new one that some of the other brands. Available in Aus via Windsurfing Accesssories. They are great to deal with as well. Plenty of fans of Loft sails on this site.

NotWal
QLD, 7436 posts
28 Feb 2010 9:53AM
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You probably want one with rod battens rather than tubes. Most of the camless freeride sails have tube battens. The Ezzy Infinity used to have rods but they also have a very low foot.

ducati
QLD, 474 posts
28 Feb 2010 10:15AM
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Sailworks Retro http://www.sailworks.com/web/previous/previous_04.cfm

Excellent no cam freeride/freerace sail been around for over 10 years or so should be able to find a cheapie somewhere, not mast sensitive either.

Bertie
NSW, 1351 posts
28 Feb 2010 2:30PM
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if you are going longboard light wind wavesailing don't bother with anything over 5.5. I'd recommend a 5.0, even in about 5 knots.
What happens when you drop in on the wave is your apparent wind increases and swings forward, so if your sheeted out even slightly you get backwinded and fall off. The bigger the sail the worse this happens.
Smaller sails make it easier to uphaul in the break and get away before the next wave in the set.

Squid Lips
WA, 708 posts
28 Feb 2010 1:41PM
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KA Kult is a wave oriented sail that comes in 6.4 and 7.0
Full x-ply so no worries about taking it in the surf.

You can order direct from www.kasail.com/windsurfing and get a discount for ordering online, and support a local business

(I am in no way associated with KA Sails, I just like them)

nosinkanow
NSW, 441 posts
1 Mar 2010 6:07PM
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Bertie said...

if you are going longboard light wind wavesailing don't bother with anything over 5.5. I'd recommend a 5.0, even in about 5 knots.


I seriously don't think a 5.0 will get me out in 5 knots. Because of the Kona's nose volume it won't take much to change it's direction as it will bob up if I don't have enough power, I'm not talking about planing power but punching power (momentum) to go over or through white water. As I already have a 5.0 Gaastra Wavefoil I will test your theory, just have to get out and try.

What happens when you drop in on the wave is your apparent wind increases and swings forward, so if your sheeted out even slightly you get backwinded and fall off. The bigger the sail the worse this happens.
Smaller sails make it easier to uphaul in the break and get away before the next wave in the set.


I experienced this a couple of times but blamed it on me pointing too high on a wave due to the board/wave relationship...same thing? I've got a great story to tell but will save it for another time..."phew" says the masses.

I've been aware of the other obvious problems using too big a sail mainly the longer boom and deeper foot getting caught on a wave but was not aware that the larger the sail is the more a problem apparent wind becomes. So thanks for that.

There are 2 guys that have been influencing me in light wind longboard wavesailing, these guys are Jeff Henderson from Maui Hotsails and John Ingebritsen (Kona rider/demonstrator), they use 7.0 sails...both Maui Super Freaks. From the vids seen they are riding in small waves and in wind around max 10 knots, my preferred conditions at the moment. Because of the small size waves perhaps this has not given them too much of a backwinding problem?

Wet Willy
TAS, 2317 posts
1 Mar 2010 7:58PM
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The Ezzy Zephyr is a camless sail designed for longboards and such. It comes in 7.5 only. May or may not be your cup of tea.

http://www.ezzy.com/sails/zephyr10.php

jimbob SA
SA, 1000 posts
1 Mar 2010 10:55PM
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Neil Pryde Supersonics from the early 2000's are the go get them cheap as and they work really well. if ya trash them in the surf just buy another for 100 bucks,

WINDY MILLER
WA, 3183 posts
2 Mar 2010 5:55PM
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.

if it's 1-2 knots,, a 20m sail aint going to work either.... and i'd be using a paddle instead...


from my LTD experience,, wave sailing on long boards is an exercise in futlility and gumbiness,, hence my LTD experiences.


Gestalt
QLD, 14969 posts
2 Mar 2010 8:08PM
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completely agree with bertie,

in the surf on longboards anything over 5.8m is a waste.

a good designed nose and good rocker will allow your board to pop over the white water.

i've taken 8.5m race sails and formula boards in the surf (when it's small) and it still feels like you are sailing a race board.

on a longboard with not footstraps and a small wave sail you feel more like you are surfing a mal.

p.s. less than 5 knots and go mow the grass or go surfing

Bertie
NSW, 1351 posts
2 Mar 2010 9:57PM
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please try with a small sail first before buying anything bigger than 5.5
You would still be surprised by how you can pump around a long board with a small sail.
but yer in 1-2 knots get a paddle.
5-15 longboard.
16-18 freestyle board.
18+ wave board

nosinkanow
NSW, 441 posts
3 Mar 2010 1:33AM
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Bertie said...

please try with a small sail first before buying anything bigger than 5.5
You would still be surprised by how you can pump around a long board with a small sail.
but yer in 1-2 knots get a paddle.
5-15 longboard.
16-18 freestyle board.
18+ wave board


5 knots is my minimum, anything under and I'll do house chores to score some valuable brownie points in case it does blow.

I'll give the 5.8 a shot. Today is a good example of one of the reasons I gave up sailing a long time ago, 12-15 knots and I have work on. Sigh...it's all déjà vu

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8356 posts
3 Mar 2010 9:27AM
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nosinkanow said...

Bertie said...

please try with a small sail first before buying anything bigger than 5.5
You would still be surprised by how you can pump around a long board with a small sail.
but yer in 1-2 knots get a paddle.
5-15 longboard.
16-18 freestyle board.
18+ wave board


5 knots is my minimum, anything under and I'll do house chores to score some valuable brownie points in case it does blow.

I'll give the 5.8 a shot. Today is a good example of one of the reasons I gave up sailing a long time ago, 12-15 knots and I have work on. Sigh...it's all déjà vu

Ive noticed that. I can plan my week around the wind but you can guarantee when I am ready for wind it will be lousy but if Ive had 2hrs sleep & half dead, my necks crook or I have an appointment it will blow 20kts..[}:)]

nonopr
26 posts
3 Mar 2010 7:00AM
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MauiSails Pursuit.

grumplestiltskin
WA, 2331 posts
3 Mar 2010 9:33AM
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I think the reason you feel you need a big sail is because your entire experience is telling you that you should be planing ALL the time.

Not that I do it, but I imagine the concept of using the long board in light wind is simply to use the sail to get you out the back and onto the wave, then its just hang on to the sail while you "longboard surf", flick over the back and dog back out with the small sail again.

You just need to get the concept of planing out through the surf out of your head and be prepared to dog around in the light wind.

whippingboy
WA, 1104 posts
3 Mar 2010 8:19PM
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Had a great sess on big boards with Bertie and the crew a few weeks ago

The weapons of choice were Neil Pryde 5m wave sails and JP SUPs

It was back to the future for me with a 12 footer in the waves

Bend zee knees, opposite rail gybes and mellow enough to enjoy the scenery

In the gusts i was being lifted off the board (thats why they invented footstraps)

As long as it cross off and over 5 knots you'll have a ball. ( Sure beats paddling)



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"Camless BIG Sails...model names needed" started by nosinkanow