Does anyone know how longboards compare in speed with dinghy class sailing boats. ie a Laser or MG14 ?
What woud be a VYC Handicap for a Longboard?
Not sure how fast exactly but the other day i was sailing next to the runway at botany bay and I overtook a 747 taking off. But I am a pretty fast sailor.
EYEMHARDCORE, YOU ARE GAY.
I DONT THINK A ONE DESIGN WOULD BEAT A LASER OR MG14 ON A REACH. ESPECIALLY WHEN THE DINGHYS ARE ON THE PLAIN. MAYBE IT WOULD THOUGH.
i'm sure a laser - fully planing - goes at about 15 knots.
Not that fast!
I also easily overtake skiffs - even upwind, but not on a longboard.
The VYC yardsticks are;
Raceboard 7.5m sail - 97 (LW) 99 (HW)
Division 2, 7.3m sail - 102 (LW) 104 (HW)
"Division 2 Funboards pre '87", 7.3 sail - 107 (LW) 110 (HW)
Open Class 93 (LW and HW)
Windsurfer One Design - 112 (LW) 116 (HW)
Junior Under 16 any board 6.5 sail - 116
Junior Under 13 5.5 sail - 127
"Weight is the sailor's dry weight fully equipped including harness and safety gear. Heavy weight is greater than 81 kgs. In wind strengths consistently over Force 4 (15 knots) the yardstick for heavyweight sailors shall be the same as the yardstick for lightweight sailors."
I've calculated the times for the top sailors in Open Raceboard, Mistral/Raceboard 7.4 and Windsurfer One Design at Dobroyd Aquatic Club - a skinny bay with about 50+ active boards racing. In each class, the top DAC sailor is either 1st or 2nd in the nationals, and the yardsticks for those classes seem pretty good. The One Design is sailing to class rules ie no upwind pumping.
A Youth Worlds rep on the RSX 9.5 sailed to a rating at about 104 or 102, I think.
I would put a Kona One with 9 as about the same as a One Design from my experience with the Kona.
I feel strongly that the Junior and Division 2 yardsticks are wrong. Years back I sailed against top MGs on a Div 2 with big rig under the Open handicap and just monstered them in light winds. The Div 2 with 7.3 is quicker than a Raceboard around a course under 14-16 knots (world champ and Olympic medallist's estimate) and was as fast as the world's best pre-foil Moths in light winds and quicker in a breeze. I am hoping to establish Windsurfing NSW recommended figures for kids soon.
I also sail International Canoes (yardstick 94), Laser (yardstick 113), Laser Radial (116) and Tasar (107.5) at championship level. My gut feeling and limited experience is that the yardsticks on the boards are surprisingly accurate compared to the boats BUT with the huge proviso that the performance of the boards versus the boats is enormously influenced by the wind conditions and even whether it's a good day for footing into knocks or sailing high into lifts. On any given day the yardsticks could be wrong but overall they are surprisingly good as far as I can see.
Peto, in good planing winds a One Design will easily beat a Laser on a reach and can blast it upwind as long as it's not a day when high pointing is vital. The only time we put a GPS on a One Design is got 25.4 knots peak and 22.5 for 10 seconds, much quicker than a Laser on a reach - but in light winds the Laser will be a big problem for any board (bar a Div 2) upwind.
vb actually it does have fizz, but it's still the worst tasting poor-mans beer on the planet 
and i've had 28 years of people trying to convince me otherwise
Are you sure? I think VB is ok.
Your not going to say XXXX is better are you?.... yuck! 
Compared to VB, EB is pure gold!! Try to have a VB after a couple of boags or coronas, pure dog food!
Many moons ago I raced longboards (Bic Bebop to Bamba, Alpha, Mistral SST to Equipe) in mixed dinghy racing.
The longboards were competitive against a local class that raced off a Portsmouth Yardstick of 100 (Laser being 114, smaller numbers being faster) when it was windy. Courses were typical harbour courses around fixed nav marks (so not specifically laid for the race).
In 5-15kts the longboard could easily take the laser (especially on the reach), and above that there was no dinghy on the harbour that could beat the board.
JB
There was a fella sailing a original one design in Lake Macquarie a few months back, at a regatta, he had GPS with him, apparently he clocked 29 knots heading off the breeze, the guys who where there said he was going pretty dam fast on the thing, he's been sailing them for ever so it could be true.
One of our local fast guys has had his old mistral race board, think it's a superlight, same shape as the Equip. up to 32 knots, i think he was running a 7.5m or 8.5m on it at the time, the sail is a modern race sail and once you get those old race boards up on the tail there pretty much a slalom board, so this would be very possible, the old pryde movies had Dunkerbeck going pretty quick on them, well the F2 version...
I assume that was me at the previous Marmong Midwinters or spring regatta. I'd like to let the 29 knots rumour keep flying around, PC, but it was only 25.4 max that day at Lake Mac (I borrowed Sam Parker's GPS and he checked the figures for me; btw there were no falls and the sustained 10s speed was 22.5 so it was no fluke).
I'm sure it could have been KNOTS quicker in flatter water or a wider angle, but there was heavy chop and I was so stuffed from racing that there was no way I was going to do more than just a quick beam reach out and back. I haven't got a GP, big wind and flat water together since but hopefully this winter may bring us some big westerlies. I wouldn't mind a big big blow and one of the Junior Barracouta 4.5s as well, to reduce aerodynamic drag.
I did sail Wallies years ago but got out of them from about '81 to '04 and sailed everything else - then when I borrowed one I realised what I'd been missing!
Pat from the raceboards has got 32.XXXX or something on his board. In contrast, world LAser champ Michael Blackburn has topped out at 19 knots or something and the 49er allegedly has a surprisingly slow top speed of around 23 knots. Of course, boats give boards (Div 2 apart) a kicking in light winds (and the skiffs are really quick and deep downwind in under 10-15 knots).
By the way, if you live near Marmong I should let you know that a Lake Mac fleet is reforming; we had five Lake Macsters at the NSW titles and several more will sail but had a dinghy regatta.
hey well done, i think some of those racer guys have been expanding the truth a little, not like them, solid 25 still a scary ride on a one design, hats off...
49ers don't go that fast according to the last stuff I heard or read from the world champion's coach, Emmett - one hell of a good 49er sailor himself.
Take this quote from Emmett comparing a 12 Foot Skiff to a 49er; "Best speed Richard and I did today (in the 12) was 22kts. Shortly afterwards Richard sat in because I was struggling to keep the boat under the rig, then Bocko blasted over the top of us! That's quicker that I ever recorded on 49er to date....... 49er rarely exceeds 20kts downwind, but easily does 15kts in 15kts of wind, so feels very nice downwind in medium stuff."
Just washing the salt down with a boags now
or at best GPS error!!
In the mid to late '80's I spent many an enjoyable Sunday afternoon racing in a mixed fleet at Lake Wellington Yacht Club on my F2 Lightening with a 6m sail under a starting Yardstick for the Division 2 class. Later I graduated to a Speed250 Raceboard and larger sails and raced on personal handicaps from 100 to low 90's so I can relate pretty well to Chris249's figures.
His comments about wind strength and courses are spot on from my experience also.
I always found the my personal Yardstick worked out very well in 12-15 knots plus and I was well under it on sub planning winds. If I had a really good race in the stronger winds I was right in the mix on handicap but it didn't matter how well I sailed in light winds I was significantly slower than my yardstick rating.
The vast majority of our courses were conventional up and downwind with a wing mark broad reach for one lap. If the wing mark was set a bit longer (Less broad) on the windier days it usually favored me.
A couple of times a season we had races around geographic markers ('Round the Lake' or 'Point to Point' and these often included long reaches. In one such race in a brisk 15-20 knots I beat the fleet by a huge, almost embarrasing margin and the club handicapper worked out I would still have won on a rating of well under 90. 
It was obvious that in mixed fleets of Dinghy's, Trailer sailer's, Cats and Windsurfers it was often the conditions that determined the podium rather than so much the skill of the skipper. I recon the yardstick rating really only worked well in a narrow wind range from about 12-16 knots and only on conventional triangle courses. At my suggestion the club actually gave me 2 personal ratings. One for under 12 knots and one for over and that worked a lot better.
I would be very interested to know what yardstick rating one would give a Formula Board in a mixed windsurfing fleet. Any ideas Chris?
Interesting, Unchained. I was going on the best information I had (Emmett's stuff and some other info).
I wasn't attacking 9ersa because they are great in so many ways, but just making the point that longboards DO reach quickly and can get around a course quite well.
Sailquick, I'm sure you're right, the relative performance of boards does vary so much against boats that the weather is the critical factor.
I don't think a FW board could really be handicapped against longboards; they are soooo fast when planing and so slow when not planing! One of our top guys was 4th of about 40 in his first FW regatta and he was sometimes first but normally miles behind when he sailed in our little light-wind puddle. A single hole or drop in the breeze will too much variation in their speed for any handicap.
At a guess and using info from teh club where foiler Moths sail against FW boards, in planing conditions maybe they'd sail to 75-80???? In non planing conditions I have no idea but it ain't quick! Foiler is 83 which was worked out from foiling conditions; under 6 knots as I understand it the right handicap would be maybe 102??????????
Does anyone else here ever sail a FW board against boats and what do you keep up with, both in planing and non planing?
That makes sense Chris. Even more extreme than trying to rate long raceboards against boats/dinghys.
for yardsticks basically it works like this.
moths and 29ers both work on around 92-93 depending on who is organising the regatta and where they get the info from.
49ers have a yardstick of 83
and 18ft skiffs work on a tentative yardstick of 68.5
to my understanding this means that a 18ft skiff has to sail the same distance around a course as a 29er, but a 18 will do it in 23.5 minutes quicker over a 92 minute period.
Thanks, PC
The foiler Moth has an official VYC of 83 BUT I'm fairly sure that was derived from Rohan sailing in foiling conditions at Black Rock - ideal conditions for the foiler and conditions that did not allow for its less stellar performance in light and fluky stuff.
Non foiler skiff has moved to 103 but last time I asked the last non-foiler world champs (Chris and Thorpey) they reckoned it really should have been 99-100.
Seen the Ronstan Video "Awesome aussie skiffs" ??? Heaps of speed and carnage. 
ps. boags is great, VB is cats wee...corona is a good breakfast beer.
