I wanta wack a sail on my SUP

finbox...yea, but ya' gotta' know where to place it....

your board [being modern] is most likely epoxy...make sure you use the correct bonding agent for it...using fibreglas resin will eat out the board from the inside....make sure you know what to use or you may end up with a hollow board so to speak if not soft..when in doubt....DONT.

you should look at other boards especially sups with mast tracks already in them from new to get an idea on placement. other wise you could have a real pig. [different style of sails.ie old to modern use different positions on board.]

but great idea...

there is another way a safer/less damaging way, easier way...the old tyronsea base could be simply screwed into the top of a board...this was often done to early boards when they lost their circular mast base....usually these boards had 2 holes..so the tyronsea base went between them...simply 4 screws

well you are going to hack open a board...4 screws is less invasive in comparison and probably looks cleaner unless you are good at finishing off a fin box insertion into a board..ie spraying to colour etc.

I once had a very sought after longboard/raceboard that has a movable mast track.....unfortunately a previous owner screwed a tyronsea base over top of it [what a waste]...luckily 4 screws removed and a dob of putty and it was back to stock

so any mast base with a larger enough flat base that can take 4 screws [maybe 3] can also substitute for a mast track...it just means you are stuck with one location...not such a bad thing if you get the location right as it means you can do it in 5 minutes instead of days....but you'll need to use large screws with a coarse thread...it will be strong enough if done correctly [maybe not if you are wave jumping but great for lake sailing and light waves/chop, but done properly it can be very strong]...it also means a lot less risk of damaging your board with a botched mast track...removing if you make a mistake means dobbing epoxy putty into 4 small holes.

unfortunately tyronsea is out of these bases permanantly i believe only having the mast cups avail...so you'll need to find a second hand one...once plentifull you'll find one or check modern bases for a similar flat base with positins to screw flat to the board

ps. I never like drilling into boards or putting in screws, I love vintage boards and try to find the correct parts...screws may seem a little primitive and invasive...but lets face it many original manufacturers just use screws straight into a board for foot straps in the day...so they obviously think they are watertight..screws are very strong in plastic boards , they work in epoxy but you need to inspect your board and decide you think it will hold screws strongly...if in doubt...DONT

good luck

or simply buy an old longboard...they are cheap.

or try the fin track if you are handy with epoxy.

Yeah,Its an XPS blank and I have epoxy resin,thats not a drama

yea...good idea a longer fin box might give you more options..still check out boards first for location of box. Sonme more knowledgeable board builders on here may help with location.

mate there are so many mast bases to pick if buying 2nd hand....

i like both US cup and europin..but a straight non extending cup [tyronsea style] is fine too if one mast can fit all sails without extending

prefer a boge type uni but one of my boards has a mechanical and i love it and its a fairly modernish board....though its common now for tendons [I,ve heard, they seem to break without warning compared to boge...but the talk is that you should replace them anyway every season...the boge you can actually see it reasonably well if it will break.

tyronsea used to be a cheap buy but not avail now...ironically i see tendon mast bases actually cheap at $50 so thats pretty good, you still have to add a mast extension.

if you can score a cheap carbon mast grab it...

if fibreglass a 2 piece..it will actually depend on what sail you get [modern sails demand a matching mast]

actually cheapest way is to find a cheap secondhand board complete and use its bits...but make sure the mast base is the type to fit a fin box. [ie just a bolt underneath with a specially made nut [similar to a large fin box nut]

it depends on your money...if you buy good gear straight up you will be happy for a long time...but cheap can be fun upgrading as you go too.

2 piece fibreglass mast, to learn on a 4.5 and 5.5 sail [maybe a 6.5 [for when you are used to sailing] to make a nice little quiver] to start with [the smaller sails will be great for high winds when you are more experienced so not waisted.], alloy boom fine , mast extension alloy fine, carbon fibre really only matters once you are really trying to save every ounce...for normal sailing I dont think you should to start with unless you have cash to burn.

Once you are comfortable with sailing then bigger sails may be what you will want later but the above quiver or similar sizes will give a good spread for most conditions as well as your learning or even later teaching your friends].

ironically if you buy a cheap longboard complete you may as well sail that as it will be cheaper than buying the bits separately and you get a free board...dont underestimate a decent old longboard...

Should be gear up for offer near you but If you cant find any up there and get stuck, I have rigs down here [Sydney] to sell but a bit far from you. Maybe a local might have some cheap gear or there is a shop at Port Mac called Jordans boatshed that does sell some stuff....but that would be new i assume?.Probably cheapest option is to buy someones complete outfit locally.

Hi,
You might like to see how I sailed my flat water board without modifying it.
- Paul.
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/General/Sail-your-SUP-without-a-mast-base-fitting/?SearchTerms=sailing,paddle,board

Yo homie Ian (lol). Even with your endless on-water surfing experience and SUP skills, I reckon you're thinking the right way to get lessons. I figured sail boarding would be like surfing (to some degree), and expected my surfing back ground to make it easy....huh! Everything is sooooo different, centre of gravity much higher, sail tries to rip you off the board etc. The main benifit it seems from a surfing back ground is ballance and fitness- plus a good understanding of waves, how and where and why they break- but I'm miles away from playing on them with a sail boarrd yet!

Anyway, pop around and check out my flash "new" board (thanks Nic) and see the sail mount base and braket and work out what you may have to do to turn your SUP into Windsup.

Sorry - should also have mentioned I have Starboard SuP with mast base holes standard. You're welcome to check it out sometime too if you're looking for ideas on position of holes as rustbucket has suggested.

Hmmm,all food for thought.I spoke to a guy this morning who Carantoc suggested might have a mast to fit the sail he is giving me.He told me I need to insert a block of "klege cell"which is really hard foam rom what I could gather,thn insert the box into that.He then went on to tell me I might need to insert some "klege cell"before I put footstrap plugs into it as well.Again placement is bouncing around in my head and I find myself asking,"should I just buy a freakin 2nd hand windsurfing board and be done with the bullSh%t?? help me out guys,what do you think? Im not rolling in $$$$ but could save a bit over a month to buy a board!!!..........I need a hug!!!!
PS dont forget I am 100+kgs but got the 150lt board moving forward in 15knots last weekend hahaha

I'm starting to think grab a sail board. Hey, you got half the other gear needed. There seems to be quite a few around, and they're already built for it. Plus you don't have to chop up a perfectly good SUP. Imagine if, after all your effort and time, it turns out a pig You'd be gutted. Look for Something around 150 plus litres and think wide and floaty. I'll keep and eye out for ya if you want.

Just had a sail at Stuarts Point again this arvo. All the peices are starting to fall into place now! Had a ball, planed on three runs- woohoo!

A 150ltr wide board may well be the go, and has many advantages - but it won't cruise and ride the waves like your SUP will. You will get hooked up learning to plane and go fast and get in the footstraps and you will stay away from the waves, which is all good, but will take away from the cruisy longboard wave riding you will get on the SUP. The sandbank under the jail should be so good for SUP sailing seems kinda of wrong not to take advantage of it. Go for low wind SUP sailing ( say 8knts to 18knots). If you try to go for high wind windsurfing (18knots +) you will suddenly need several sails, several masts, several booms, various fins, lessons and everything else that stops people windsurfing.

When you can rip in 18 knots on your SUP worry about something else.

My suggestion would be :

Stand on your SUP board on a dead flat dead calm day, feet side by side. Find a big bath tub (or the river). Wherever the balance point is (probably a range rather than a single point), mark the centre of it. Don't worry too much exactly where it is, somewhere about there will be OK. You may well know where this point is anyway, just from SUPing

Go here :
http://www.surfsailaustralia.com.au/listProduct/Windsurfing/Bits+and+Pieces/25

buy the Chinook mast track for $27.95

or - if you have an old broken board smash the mast box out and clean it up.

then go to 'surf hardware, Repair Materials' in the left hand menu of the same website and buy the epoxy 600ml resin kit (26775 for $44.95) and Easy Rider Q cells (308661 for $5.95)

Or - go find a friendly shaper, take a couple of jam jars and get Q cell, resin, hardner and cloth for $20. 500ml would be plenty. You need epoxy resin if your board core is polystyrene. If you don't know what it is get epoxy. If you know it is not, then get polyester resin. For 500ml the price difference is bugger all.

Or - wait for a week and I can give you some, but I need to wait for a dry hot day to put a fin box in first, you can have whatever resin, hardner cloth and Q cell is left over - it would be enough for a mast track.

Now using the mark in the centre balance point cut out a hole same size as the box and install the box and resin with Q cells. Don't cut the hole too big, just a few mm bigger than the box.

Don't cut too deep, be careful, go slowly, you don't need a router, but if you have that is good.

There are several threads on here, one recently titled 'fin box riped out sideways' with pictures of what to do.

I can draw some pictures if you want. I suspect there are many videos on the net as well.

Don't worry about the board being stringerless and installing high density foam. The foam would be better for sure, but you will be OK without it. It just give a larger surface area to bond to and a more dense pocket for the mast track. If everybody here disagrees with me about this then install a couple of thin sheets of fibreglass cloth (woven) or carbon cloth if you can find it into the hole as well - but I wouldn't worry about anything other than that.


Then go sailing.

Cost you $78.85 plus postage maximum, 5 day wait for the postman, couple of hours to install (do it on a sunny warm, dry day - don't do it on these raining days or super humid days) - plus a mast. If you pay $300 for a second hand mast you should get a good one, but you should be able to get something for less than that.



Then, after all that let me have a go, I don't have a wind SUP and I am sure I don't want one, but just maybe ....

Then keep you eyes out for a board, don't panic, don't pay too much and keep sailing and smiling while you are looking.

The EPS Styrofoam in a typical SUP will not bond to the plastic mast track, you need to build a little cradle out of devinycell or balsa wood, epoxy the mast track into it then bond the whole thing into the board with the appropriate agent.
Forget about footstraps, SUP sailing is not shortboard blasting it's non planing surfing, slogging and gliding in low wind.
http://www.boardseekermag.com/equipment_reviews/equipment/wind-SUP-windsurfers-test.htm

I would have described it slightly differently ^^^

Polyester resin does not bond to EPS
Epoxy resin does not bond to the plastic mast track.

So to bond the plastic mast track to the EPS core, you have to bond the plastic to divinycell with polyester resin and the divinycell to the EPs with epoxy resin.

So you have :

Plastic box = polyester resin = Divinycell = epoxy resin = EPS core

You can't have

Plastic box = epoxy resin (no bond)
or
polyester resin = EPS core (fire and chemical reaction)


An alternate is to cut the hole in the EPS and glass it up with epoxy and cloth. Then use polyester to put the track in. Here the epoxy stops the polyester touching the EPS, in the same way the divinycell does.

But - when you say epoxy resin doesn't bond to a plastic fin box well - then that is the key. The definition of 'well'.

If you have got a stringerless SUP board the epoxy to mastrack bond is probably not your weak link. Impact from mast and boom on board rails from falling off alot is what will stop you first.

I say get the castillated chinook mast track, roughen it up if you must and stick in and go sailing.

Many many years ago I had an EPS cored speed board that had about 10 deep half circular channels in the bottom. Very strange board even for those times. I ripped the fin box out, put it back in as I described and it lasted for as long as I had the board.

She'll be right mate.