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John Carter will Shoot the 2010 lancelin Classic

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Created by Robert Goyen > 9 months ago, 10 Dec 2009
Robert Goyen
WA, 60 posts
10 Dec 2009 12:04PM
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John Carter from the UK arguably the world’s best Windsurfing photographer has confirmed that he will be at the 2010 Lancelin Ocean Classic.

This is great news for the event, Lancelin and sport of windsurfing as he has guaranteed event coverage in all the major Windsurfing magazines in the world as well as other mainstream mag’s.

If you see him around for the 4 days of the event make sure you say hi as he is a great guy.

Bertie
NSW, 1351 posts
10 Dec 2009 3:22PM
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so what does john look like?? or do i just look for the guy with a camera??

Windxtasy
WA, 4019 posts
10 Dec 2009 12:29PM
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Bertie said...

so what does john look like?? or do i just look for the guy with a camera??


I was wondering the same thing.

or do we just be friendly West Australians and say Hi to everybody ?

Robert Goyen
WA, 60 posts
10 Dec 2009 12:31PM
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Look for the guy with the big lens

windtechno
VIC, 372 posts
10 Dec 2009 6:57PM
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He looks like Tom cruze all the girls love him

laurie
NSW, 3904 posts
16 Dec 2009 2:07PM
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Sorry guys, some posts removed.

As per forum policy, if you want to question how a business operates, then you need to approach that business directly.

It has never ended well for anybody when one business writes about how another business is behaving, and everybody starts making assements of each business - it just turns into a fight, and both businesses (and the event) simply end up "damaged".

www.seabreeze.com.au/Members/Help/ForumRules.aspx#h40


Windxtasy
WA, 4019 posts
16 Dec 2009 11:20AM
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Laurie, in general the moderators of this forum do a great job in keeping it a friendly place and keeping angst to a minimum.
There are however, some affairs that need to be discussed and some facts which need to be brought out into the open, especially when they are "from the horse's mouth" and not just hearsay..
That is what a forum is for.

laurie
NSW, 3904 posts
16 Dec 2009 2:27PM
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Indeed it is.

A pub is for discussion also, but if a fight breaks out, then there is a response from the staff that operate the establishment.

In the 5+ years I've been moderator, these topics always get worse, never better, and everybody walks away injured.

I know my decision may not be popular, but it's for everybodies benefit. The selection of a supplier is a private negotiation between businesses, and that's what it should remain.

>> especially when they are "from the horse's mouth" and not just hearsay..

I encourage you to read this:

www.seabreeze.com.au/Members/Help/ForumRules.aspx#h40

raggy
VIC, 564 posts
16 Dec 2009 2:28PM
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if your going to remove mass posts to stop agro then remove all the posts.
not some and leave others. fairs fair

Ben 555
NSW, 456 posts
16 Dec 2009 2:36PM
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With respect Laurie - it ceased to be a private negotiation between businesses when Col posted his version of events - he obviously wished to place this record in a public domain (albeit one that is privately owend and operated)

I respect your right as a third party to not allow such discussion in a business space (for thats what it is) - in fact I would do the same - but to call it a private negotiation is misleading

MintoxGT
WA, 975 posts
16 Dec 2009 10:07PM
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I have sent an email to LOC with my opinion about all this and the history that may be lost.

Not sharing it in here.

Rider5
WA, 567 posts
18 Dec 2009 1:47PM
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Hmm interesting read re birds eyes views on the "other" web site.

stehsegler
WA, 3580 posts
19 Dec 2009 2:41PM
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so what it is exactly that people are getting hung up about?

raggy
VIC, 564 posts
19 Dec 2009 5:58PM
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stehsegler said...

so what it is exactly that people are getting hung up about?


The thing is that for years Col has put his time effort and own money and contacts
in to helping make the LOC a viable event giving it public exposuer it never would have receved via his contacts never having receved even a thank you. let alone
being compinsated for photos that he took. time after time . seems funny that
some alliances seem thicker than others...

Rider5
WA, 567 posts
19 Dec 2009 5:00PM
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stehsegler said...

so what it is exactly that people are getting hung up about?


I've sent you a link feel free to pass it on.

PM's the "underground" forum

hoop
1979 posts
19 Dec 2009 6:29PM
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Maybe it's time to let go now raggy. You're like a dog with a bone.
Someone else is taking some photos. Is it that big a deal?

stehsegler
WA, 3580 posts
19 Dec 2009 9:22PM
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thanks for sending the link to the "other forum" Rider5.

Hm... I can understand why Col would be upset.

Personally I know a number of photographers that have given up on covering any type of water sport including windsurfing. Why? The list of reasons is long but here a short selection of what I have been told: companies don't value photography, companies disregard copyright and intellectual property, the financial rewards are so poor you can't run a business from it...

In regards to not using Cols services... I guess we do live in a free market economy where companies can choose to hire who ever they want to hire... in my experience favours in the form of freebees never pay back in the long run. That's why I have given up on them a long time ago. You want my services you have to pay cold hard cash. End of story.

I am guessing Col will think twice about spending his own time and money for this sort of thing in the future.

Now let's all go back to posting juvenile photos and message such as the one in this thread: www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=59355

lanky
QLD, 213 posts
20 Dec 2009 6:31AM
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Just wondering if I have missed something but does anyone know if John Carter is actually being paid or if he is just there because the event has become big enough to warrant him flying over and trying to get some shots that are good enough to sell to a magazine?

dan berry
WA, 2562 posts
20 Dec 2009 4:42AM
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I agree with shludhger, you should never perform "favours" unless they are simultaneously reciprocated. As far as paying cold hard cash for services, good luck with that Tommy.

djl070
WA, 291 posts
21 Dec 2009 9:08AM
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stehsegler said...

thanks for sending the link to the "other forum" Rider5.

Hm... I can understand why Col would be upset.

Personally I know a number of photographers that have given up on covering any type of water sport including windsurfing. Why? The list of reasons is long but here a short selection of what I have been told: companies don't value photography, companies disregard copyright and intellectual property, the financial rewards are so poor you can't run a business from it...

In regards to not using Cols services... I guess we do live in a free market economy where companies can choose to hire who ever they want to hire... in my experience favours in the form of freebees never pay back in the long run. That's why I have given up on them a long time ago. You want my services you have to pay cold hard cash. End of story.

I am guessing Col will think twice about spending his own time and money for this sort of thing in the future.

Now let's all go back to posting juvenile photos and message such as the one in this thread: www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=59355


I can appreciate your comments but those of us who know Col,know he does it because he loves the sport and is one hell of a good photographer.
He certainly has done alot to enhance the LOC over the years

stehsegler
WA, 3580 posts
21 Dec 2009 9:53AM
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Robert Goyen said...
This is great news for the event, Lancelin and sport of windsurfing as he has guaranteed event coverage in all the major Windsurfing magazines in the world as well as other mainstream mag’s.


Robert, you obviously don't know much about the editorial process in the publishing world. No one has a publishing guarantee. Not even if your name is Annie Leibowitz and you do the gig for free.

John might have an agreement in place that they will consider a mention in the "feel good section" at the beginning of the mag if there is space and the editor sees it fit but that's about it. Any other space in a mag is generally booked 6 to 12 months in advance.

There are other ways around this of course (eg brand x buys x pages of advertising and in return gets a story which is essence is an advertorial without actually calling it that). It's common place in the computer and entertainment industry. I believe similar forced where at work with that F2 sponsored West OZ dvd a few years ago which got huge coverage in disguise as a travel report in a number of European Magazines.

Not sure if John still works for Boards Magazine. I guess if he does that would mean a 2 or more page coverage because the editor would get the photos at no cost.

stehsegler
WA, 3580 posts
21 Dec 2009 9:55AM
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djl070 said...

stehsegler said...

thanks for sending the link to the "other forum" Rider5.
In regards to not using Cols services... I guess we do live in a free market economy where companies can choose to hire who ever they want to hire... in my experience favours in the form of freebees never pay back in the long run. That's why I have given up on them a long time ago. You want my services you have to pay cold hard cash. End of story.


I can appreciate your comments but those of us who know Col,know he does it because he loves the sport and is one hell of a good photographer.
He certainly has done alot to enhance the LOC over the years



djl70, if you read between the lines you should understand that I am totally with Col and have full sympathy for the situation. The reason why I was quite selective in what I wrote was that I knew the message otherwise would have been deleted by the forum ops.



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"John Carter will Shoot the 2010 lancelin Classic" started by Robert Goyen