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Learning to do forwards

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Created by Haircut > 9 months ago, 7 Mar 2008
Haircut
QLD, 6491 posts
7 Mar 2008 10:39PM
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as crazy at it may look, it is a wonder no one has created a vid like this for windsurfing coz it is pretty much the same as a forward loop, only nothing holds u up and you don't have as much time to pull it off so no dingle dangling possible, but technique is the same. close your eyes and imagine you are on a windsurfer and not a kite - and DON'T let go of your back hand!!!! regardless of what this silly man says unless you absolutley think you are going around too far, which is unlikely for the first 6 months



sorry

Stewie
VIC, 218 posts
7 Mar 2008 11:40PM
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If I close my eyes, I cant see the video anymore.

Haircut
QLD, 6491 posts
7 Mar 2008 10:45PM
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that may be a good thing

nebbian
WA, 6277 posts
7 Mar 2008 11:26PM
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Was watching some looping videos tonight actually, including robby looping a longboard

How important is raising the windward rail/dropping the leeward rail? Everyone seems to do it...

Mark _australia
WA, 23743 posts
7 Mar 2008 11:40PM
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NOT that I can pull off forwards, but it seems that it is only because you pull your rear leg up under your bum and upwind and the secondary effect is the "rolling" of the board along the longitudinal axis. IE not necessary to lift the windward rail but it happens anyway

curac
WA, 1160 posts
7 Mar 2008 11:55PM
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there was in interview with robbie naish ages and ages and ages back that i was reading, and they were asking him how to do back loop this is pretty much what he said..

1. jump
2. go round
3. land and sail off
it's that simple i know it's the wrong direction but i think its funny story. you know like ha ha funny. not like haircut funny with his strange kite vids

Gestalt
QLD, 14989 posts
8 Mar 2008 1:19AM
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the raising windward rail is important when launching upwind instead of downwind.

it helps the board turn downwind before the rotation.
now all i need is to do the rotation.

holgs
WA, 303 posts
8 Mar 2008 1:17PM
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To me there is a big fundamental difference between a forward roll on a kite and a forward loop:

On a kite all rotations are initiated before takeoff by pushing against the water. Once in the air, there is nothing to push against, hence the rotation cannot be initiated or changed (other than slowed by extending your body). The kite is neutral in all this. It just flies overhead and keeps you suspended to give you more time to complete the rotation. Initiating rotations while still on the ground by pushing off the ground is the same in most if not all sports be it skiing, gymnastics, ice skating, diving, etc. etc.

Windsurfing however is different. We have a sail. There is as much power in the sail when we are airborne as there is when we are on the ground. Hence windsurfers can initiate and change rotations in mid air using the sail. That's why high jumps into stalled forwards and Kauli's push loop into forward are possible. I don't know of any other sport where you can turn a back rotation into a forward rotation in the same move.

The point of all this:
For me the sail is more important in initiating the forward loop than what the body is doing. It is the sail that throws us into a catapult or a forward loop. Unlike other sports it matters less whether you're looking back over your shoulder, at the mast foot or even just straight ahead.

The sail needs to go forwards and slightly to windward before it can fully power into the rotation. This is often done automatically by putting the back hand further back on the boom. Sheeting in hard then automatically moves the sail forwards. To me this is the key. Of course you also need to lean forwards, tuck the back foot up and point the board slightly downwind.

PS: a forward roll on a kite is much easier to learn than a forward loop and doesn't give anything close to the buzz of a forward.

CJW
NSW, 1731 posts
8 Mar 2008 8:56PM
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I think looking back while doing forwards serves one purpose, particularly when you're learning them and that is reduction of fear factor. A forward is basically a controlled catapult, initiated by changing the centre of effort of the sail relative to your body position. When I learned them I found the most difficult part was overcoming the 'anti catapult reflex' which is basically part of your muscle memory. Looking back at the clue helps rotate your shoulders into the forward, reduces the 'anti catapult reflex' and generally gets your body into a better position.

I think the other key thing when learning forwards is doing them way off the wind which gives a much flatter rotation. No need to go all end over end style at the start, it's asking for broken gear/body. Oh and back hand waaaay back on the boom.

555
892 posts
8 Mar 2008 8:03PM
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Looking back also means that it's the back of your head that hits the water when you under-rotate, and not your ear.. unless you like burst eardrums, or a constant whistling sound this is a good thing!

thewindmap
WA, 51 posts
8 Mar 2008 9:00PM
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Your body is always going to follow your head, which is why "look where you want to go" is key for every move. In a forward if you're looking forward, then you're looking straight down at the water as you rotate and that's where you'll go, instead of around.

jp747
1553 posts
8 Mar 2008 9:12PM
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keep the tips comin' mates..i need to do a forward without breaking anything..last i remember 95' 96' i went for it without any clue only video's of pros on a of all boards a mistral energyas i was rotating i didn't generate lift that much the mast slammed and cracked the rail and ripped the top two panels..pretty expensive mistake

Haircut
QLD, 6491 posts
8 Mar 2008 10:40PM
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it's worth having a robust sail when practicing them. I destroyed the top 2 panels in 2 sails because of constantly putting the tip of the sail through the water, mainly because it took some time to develop the technique off flattish water. it's a different story off a wave, and providing you have already overcome the fear you will go right round off a wave. much much easier and u can do them slower even if technique not up to scratch

thewindmap
WA, 51 posts
8 Mar 2008 9:49PM
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jp747 said...

keep the tips comin' mates..

this is more spin loop, but anyway:

Preparation:
0) Wear a wetsuit or at least a wetsuit vest - you *will* be slapping your back a bit
1) Back hand way back, 30cm or more
2) Front hand back a little too, near the front harness line but still comfortable
3) Thumbs under, fingers over grip works for me
4) Wedge your feet in the straps
5) look for the ramp!
3&4 means you won't be losing the boom or the board on the way around.

The loop:
1) spot your ramp - you want to be sure you get some air!
2) as you pop your extending your front hard forward and up, and pulling in with the back hand, think more about getting the rig forward and up and across the wind than just sheeting in.
3) Pull your back foot under your bum and push away with the front foot so you've turned the board downwind, pretty much just by scissoring your legs
4) Look back, keep your feet tucked up and hang on tight

In reality 2,3,4 all overlap. And you want the rig forward, like you're bearing away as hard as you can on a longboard, if you just look back and sheet in you're in for a big back slap.





jp747
1553 posts
8 Mar 2008 10:00PM
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thewindmap said...

jp747 said...

keep the tips comin' mates..

this is more spin loop, but anyway:

Preparation:
0) Wear a wetsuit or at least a wetsuit vest - you *will* be slapping your back a bit
1) Back hand way back, 30cm or more
2) Front hand back a little too, near the front harness line but still comfortable
3) Thumbs under, fingers over grip works for me
4) Wedge your feet in the straps
5) look for the ramp!
3&4 means you won't be losing the boom or the board on the way around.

The loop:
1) spot your ramp - you want to be sure you get some air!
2) as you pop your extending your front hard forward and up, and pulling in with the back hand, think more about getting the rig forward and up and across the wind than just sheeting in.
3) Pull your back foot under your bum and push away with the front foot so you've turned the board downwind, pretty much just by scissoring your legs
4) Look back, keep your feet tucked up and hang on tight

In reality 2,3,4 all overlap. And you want the rig forward, like you're bearing away as hard as you can on a longboard, if you just look back and sheet in you're in for a big back slap.








not much wavesailing in our place so we rely on swells, steep ramps created by the wind and comes where the wind direction is and to get a good jump we kind of turn upwind just a tad to hit it harder..by doing this would it loosen the momentumand consequently be late in putting the nose downwind?

thewindmap
WA, 51 posts
8 Mar 2008 10:50PM
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if the swell is pretty much the same direction as the wind then it's hard, so go off the back of chop or look for chop off the normal angle. You can spin loop on dead flat water, provided you head a bit downwind, get some speed, and get some pop off anything you can find. The nose will stick in, but that just helps you get around. I wouldn't start off learning them heading up swells first - you don't need massive air anyway.

CJW
NSW, 1731 posts
9 Mar 2008 1:08AM
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Haircut said...

it's worth having a robust sail when practicing them. I destroyed the top 2 panels in 2 sails because of constantly putting the tip of the sail through the water, mainly because it took some time to develop the technique off flattish water. it's a different story off a wave, and providing you have already overcome the fear you will go right round off a wave. much much easier and u can do them slower even if technique not up to scratch


I did the same with masts. I snapped two masts, the top piece, right between the ferrule and the tip. Broke a few top battens too, never a panel though, you must use Pryde or something :o

jp747: When you're learning try them off the wind. The more upwind you try a forward the more 'end over end' it becomes. This can be masked a bit with technique but that takes time to develop. They are far far easier to learn off the wind as the rotation is much flatter.

Haircut
QLD, 6491 posts
9 Mar 2008 12:33AM
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2 north "freeride" sails actually, but i reckon any sail would have been stuffed if they didn't have xply

evlPanda
NSW, 9207 posts
9 Mar 2008 11:32AM
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Haircut said...

... - and DON'T let go of your back hand!!!!


I'm missing something. What am I supposed to be holding my back hand with?

Haircut
QLD, 6491 posts
9 Mar 2008 10:34AM
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your front hand and pray

jp747
1553 posts
10 Mar 2008 11:56AM
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CJW said...

Haircut said...

it's worth having a robust sail when practicing them. I destroyed the top 2 panels in 2 sails because of constantly putting the tip of the sail through the water, mainly because it took some time to develop the technique off flattish water. it's a different story off a wave, and providing you have already overcome the fear you will go right round off a wave. much much easier and u can do them slower even if technique not up to scratch


I did the same with masts. I snapped two masts, the top piece, right between the ferrule and the tip. Broke a few top battens too, never a panel though, you must use Pryde or something :o

jp747: When you're learning try them off the wind. The more upwind you try a forward the more 'end over end' it becomes. This can be masked a bit with technique but that takes time to develop. They are far far easier to learn off the wind as the rotation is much flatter.


will do try as soon as i have the old board fixed asap..thewindmap-i'll probably try doing it with really throwaway sails first it's an ouchy feeling when you break something



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"Learning to do forwards" started by Haircut