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Need opinion on buying a prototype sail

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Created by vash68 > 9 months ago, 27 Aug 2009
vash68
7 posts
27 Aug 2009 2:59PM
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Hi,

I was searching for a good deal on a 7.5m+ free ride sail (NP Hellcat, V6 or similar) and came across of a website selling 2008 and 2009 prototype sails (pricing is about 25-40% of MSRP).

Does anybody have any opinion on using prototype sails such as
1. reliability and longevity - is it made to the same standard and use the same materials as a production version?
2. any other concerns, like is it worth buying at discount, what will be the downside?

Thanks!

spot1
WA, 1588 posts
27 Aug 2009 3:53PM
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good for a short team fix
they are not made to last only to test

Crash Landing
NSW, 1173 posts
27 Aug 2009 6:04PM
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They're also not always well finished. I had a look in a bin of sails in Tarifa and some of them hadn't been finished on the edges - it was straight monofilm... They also had loads of stitching holes where they had re-arranged the panel layout. I ended up buying a second hand north instead.

Of course the ones you're looking at could be completely different!

evlPanda
NSW, 9207 posts
27 Aug 2009 6:22PM
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You can probably get 25%-40% off a never used 2008-09 sail anyway. I just did.

AUS1111
WA, 3621 posts
27 Aug 2009 4:25PM
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Depends on the brand.

I can only speak for North, but they make the protos in the same loft in Sri Lanka as the production sails. They generally make five of each size with slight variations and then test them against each other in Maui, make changes and figure out what works best and why.

The variations could be in materials, or anything else really, but one thing they definitely don't do (deliberately) is make them in any way inferior in quality, as quality is one of the main things they are testing them for!

If they are cheap, go for it, though 25-40% off doesn't sound like a lot given that they are used sails.

Kimba
SA, 459 posts
27 Aug 2009 6:16PM
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So if they make 5 to test, 1 is best, the other 4 are inferior and they still sell them off. Or are they only selling the "winning" set of prototypes.

Windxtasy
WA, 4019 posts
27 Aug 2009 5:04PM
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I have one of Gaastra's prototype race sails.
It had hardly been used when I bought it 15 years ago and I still use it as my lightwind sail. I still love it.
The luff sleeve never was finished properly - the boom cutout edges and the mast opening were never bound and the zips were never put in for the camber inducers but those edges are still only slightly frayed.
The foil itself was finished as any other sail.
The frayed edges on the luff sleeve look a bit second rate but it sails beautifully.

So if the price is right, I'd definitely consider a prototype sail.

AUS1111
WA, 3621 posts
27 Aug 2009 5:11PM
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Kimba said...

So if they make 5 to test, 1 is best, the other 4 are inferior and they still sell them off. Or are they only selling the "winning" set of prototypes.


It's a fair question.

I only spoke regarding North as I spent a bit of time recently talking to their testers / designers in Maui and asked a few questions as I was curious.

I wanted to know what they were actually testing them (the race sails) for, what they were trying to achieve; more top end, bottom end, wind range? The answer at that point was not really any of the above. They had made some sails with variations to materials in particular panels and wanted to see if that would affect the durability or performance; like one layer of this instead of two layers of that etc.

It's a complex process and I was impressed with the amount of time and effort that went into what seemed like fairly minor differences.

The point I was making though, was simply that the protos were built to the same standard of finish as the production sails.

From reading some of the above comments is sounds as though other brands may make protos that are thrown together just to test a particular aspect.

To answer the question though, yes, I would assume they (North) would sell off all the protos.

I bought five protos and the build quality is one of the things I liked about them.

steveBayside
VIC, 169 posts
27 Aug 2009 8:53PM
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the original post says 25%-40% OF retail price, not 25%-40% OFF

evlPanda
NSW, 9207 posts
27 Aug 2009 9:10PM
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steveBayside said...

the original post says 25%-40% OF retail price, not 25%-40% OFF




How much were your orange slices? (I like)

decrepit
WA, 12888 posts
27 Aug 2009 7:36PM
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I tried a prototype and it was rubbish, think the sail maker was trying something completely new and it just didn't work, so be careful, would be best if you can demo it first.

Kimba
SA, 459 posts
27 Aug 2009 10:08PM
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Sounds like you bought the right type of prototype sail Chris, the one that sails as good or better than the current model with slight material variations. I can't imagine any of the big sailmakers would risk selling any prototype if it was not as good as or better than full production build quality and performance. I think boards would be a different kettle of fish though.

vash68
7 posts
28 Aug 2009 2:21AM
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AUS1111 said...

Depends on the brand.

I can only speak for North, but they make the protos in the same loft in Sri Lanka as the production sails.



The protos I was looking at were Neil Pryde 2008 and 2009.
It also sounds like they used 2008 protos as their rental fleet and now selling them off.
So if this is a 2008 Hellcat prototype, was it actually build in 2007 and then used for about 2 years? Is it even worth 40% of retail?
2009 protos seem to be selling at the same price levels, bot not the size I need :(

Thanks guys for all your input.



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"Need opinion on buying a prototype sail" started by vash68