Woo! New site is online - select here to use it!


Forums > Windsurfing General

Puzzle

Reply
Created by evlPanda > 9 months ago, 11 Sep 2008
evlPanda
NSW, 9207 posts
11 Sep 2008 9:20PM
Thumbs Up

Should be easy:

A river runs straight from West to East at 10 knots. A 10 mile race is held: the boats sail downstream, from West to East. The first heat is held in the morning, when there is no wind. The second heat is held in the afternoon, when there is a 10 knot wind from the West. In which heat are the faster times recorded?

Gonewindsurfing247
WA, 966 posts
11 Sep 2008 7:41PM
Thumbs Up

Ok, I'll be the first goose to have a crack....

Both heats record the same time?

Reason: In 2nd heat the wind is blowing at same speed as the current making the apparent wind 0 and therefore identical to the first heat.

Ian K
WA, 4170 posts
11 Sep 2008 7:49PM
Thumbs Up

The morning. All motion is relative. In the afternoon you're sitting in the water with no wind and the finish line comes to meet you in 1 hr. In the morning the finish line comes towards your position in the water at the same speed, but you have the option of uphauling and beating into a 10 knot breeze to meet it.

Reflex Films
WA, 1463 posts
11 Sep 2008 7:50PM
Thumbs Up

easy:

second heat faster - 0 apparent wind = 0 drag.

first heat a touch slower as the apparent wind is 10 knots (river running at 10 knots on a calm morning) the wrong way - causing some drag

or is it?


the 10 knots apparent wind (the wrong way) may be allowing the boats to sail INTO the wind (especially if the boats were starboard serenitys..) thus gaining some extra ground? hmm - more to this than meets the eye....

aus301
QLD, 2039 posts
11 Sep 2008 9:59PM
Thumbs Up

Easy, you were actually in the bar all afternoon cause there wasn't enough wind to have a good sail and you ended up too drunk to care.

Pittsy
SA, 251 posts
11 Sep 2008 9:37PM
Thumbs Up

aus301 said...

Easy, you were actually in the bar all afternoon cause there wasn't enough wind to have a good sail and you ended up too drunk to care.


haha agreed

sailpilot
QLD, 788 posts
11 Sep 2008 10:45PM
Thumbs Up

OK, so the river runs straight but you didn't say the race was straight so what if the course was a slalom style course down the river. So in the first race the boats may have sailed the course with apparent wind and scored a time. The second race was all DNFs as no-one was able to make it across the river to round the buoys with the zero apparent wind.

Wouldn't bet my shirt but I'll guess the first race.

Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
11 Sep 2008 11:36PM
Thumbs Up

Dunno, I went to school when they taught metric, not bushells, poles, cables, chains and furlongs.

Its easier to work tens and zeros.

Mark _australia
WA, 23737 posts
11 Sep 2008 11:19PM
Thumbs Up

Gonewindsurfing247 said...

Ok, I'll be the first goose to have a crack....

Both heats record the same time?

Reason: In 2nd heat the wind is blowing at same speed as the current making the apparent wind 0 and therefore identical to the first heat.


Correct

DL
WA, 659 posts
11 Sep 2008 11:58PM
Thumbs Up

Mark _australia said...

Gonewindsurfing247 said...

Ok, I'll be the first goose to have a crack....

Both heats record the same time?

Reason: In 2nd heat the wind is blowing at same speed as the current making the apparent wind 0 and therefore identical to the first heat.


Correct


Incorrect. Reflex films got it right.

First race has apparent headwind, so you go slower than the water speed.

Wet Willy
TAS, 2317 posts
12 Sep 2008 2:39AM
Thumbs Up

Are we windsurfing or kiting?

Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
12 Sep 2008 7:13AM
Thumbs Up

If the sailors in the second race are using formula gear they would win.

sailpilot
QLD, 788 posts
12 Sep 2008 9:05AM
Thumbs Up

Mobydisc said...

If the sailors in the second race are using formula gear they would win.


How Moby, they mst be becalmed, river running at 10 knots and wind blowing at 10 knots same direction?

Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
12 Sep 2008 11:55AM
Thumbs Up

sailpilot said...

Mobydisc said...

If the sailors in the second race are using formula gear they would win.


How Moby, they mst be becalmed, river running at 10 knots and wind blowing at 10 knots same direction?




Its been a while since I've sailed in strong currents and I've never sailed a formula board. Wouldn't it be possible to start sailing upwind to get planing and then bear off? Depending on how wide the river is you would be going alright with an 11m sail.


Mark _australia
WA, 23737 posts
12 Sep 2008 11:09AM
Thumbs Up

DL said...

Mark _australia said...

Gonewindsurfing247 said...

Ok, I'll be the first goose to have a crack....

Both heats record the same time?

Reason: In 2nd heat the wind is blowing at same speed as the current making the apparent wind 0 and therefore identical to the first heat.


Correct


Incorrect. Reflex films got it right.

First race has apparent headwind, so you go slower than the water speed.




poor relative
WA, 9106 posts
12 Sep 2008 12:46PM
Thumbs Up

41.8 ?

Gestalt
QLD, 14983 posts
12 Sep 2008 2:55PM
Thumbs Up

Answer to puzzle.

The faster heat is the one with no wind. When the wind and the water both move W to E at 10 kt, the boats drift down the river at 10 kt, with their sails hanging limp. In the heat with no wind (as measured on the land), a drifting boat has a headwind of 10 kt. You can tack into that.

Of course, you don't get something for nothing. In the heat with wind, the river does very little work on the boat. In the heat without wind, it exerts much greater force on the boat, in particular on the keel or centreboard. Much of that work goes into disturbing the air downwind of the boat's sails.

DL
WA, 659 posts
12 Sep 2008 3:40PM
Thumbs Up

Gestalt said...

Answer to puzzle.

The faster heat is the one with no wind. When the wind and the water both move W to E at 10 kt, the boats drift down the river at 10 kt, with their sails hanging limp. In the heat with no wind (as measured on the land), a drifting boat has a headwind of 10 kt. You can tack into that.

Of course, you don't get something for nothing. In the heat with wind, the river does very little work on the boat. In the heat without wind, it exerts much greater force on the boat, in particular on the keel or centreboard. Much of that work goes into disturbing the air downwind of the boat's sails.



Interesting... So the answer lies in your vessel's ability to tack upwind.

evlPanda
NSW, 9207 posts
12 Sep 2008 11:43PM
Thumbs Up

Gestalt said...

evlPanda said...

Reflex Films and Gestalt (where you been?) have it.

http://www.physclips.unsw.edu.au/jw/sailing.html


i must admit i googled researched this one.

been having babies.




Aah, good. One day we can race them.

(edit: they may already have raced on little buggies)



Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Windsurfing General


"Puzzle" started by evlPanda