just after some general advise i am new to windsurfing and i am looking at some more sails, and was wanting some advise at to weather to stay away from cams while i am learning or wil they make it easier.
ps how does the pryde diablo fit in for a learner sail
thanks
dont get cams, they are a complete pain in the a$$, they are fustraiting, and worthless while learning, you dont want all that low end power while learning either,
go for no cams, they are much better
In addition to above cammed sails are more likely to break battens and create more mast wear.
Do a search of this forum. There have been a few threads on it discussing the pros and cons. In your situation its easy though, no cams.
Hey bh2905 - I'm a recent convert to windsurfing from sailing (started late last year)
I've been stuffing around with old cammed sails, my suggestion go camless.
Had 3 cammed sails, they have all broken cams, bent them, they always pop off, etc
Pain in the arse (esp if have wrong mast curves)
Go camless, the time spent fiddling with cams is better spent learning on the water
Plus, cam luff sleeves are a pain to waterstart
p.s. Bought my first camless last week, can't wait!
Go with the No Cam sail, it will be a lot easier to learn with, especially when you get around to water starting. As cambered sails have a tendancy to be difficult to get out of the water when the luff pocket fills up.
If your worried wether you will be able to go as fast as a cambered type dont worry too much..
heres my biased unofficial world record...
Date : Saturday, December 22, 2007
Spot : Sandy Point, Victoria, Australia
Board : Carbon Art speed board 44
Sail : KA Sails Koyote 5.3
Fin : KA-Sails Lockwood<>McDougall Assy 21
GPS type : Navi GT11
Average speed : 43.42 knots (43.9 43.7 43.6 43.0 42.9)
Max. GPS (display) : 45.4 knots
Max. 2 sec. (software) : 45.2 knots
100 m run : 44.2 knots
250 m run : 43.8 knots
500 m run : 43.3 knots
I'm with Sailhack on this one..
In the early learning stages, a small, light sail is great.. but once over that inital hump, having a stable sail that will handle gusts without the centre of effort shifting around is of great benefit.
A modern cammed sail, on a matching mast, with appropriate down and outhaul should rotate very easily. I have never had a broken batten yet. Most of them can be easily rigged by slightly over-downhauling, pulling heaps of outhaul, and then just leaning gently on the cam to pop it onto the mast. Then simply back the tensions off to sailing trim.
Having watched a friend get flogged half to death by a modern camless sail in a gust while I sat quite comfortably against my cammed sail (the same size) I am a strong believer in the stability of a cammed sail for low end grunt, and top end stability.
Mainly race sails will have the big luff-tube that fills up with water and is nearly impossible to get up again once it's full.. There are many cammed sails around that do not suffer from this problem.
As said earlier though - horses for courses. Cams and Cam-less are both good, just for different things. If you're sailing around more than you're falling in, it probably doesn't matter either way at this stage, and I'd be inclined to look to the future a bit - if you want to get into waves or freestyle, go camless, if you're just hooning around on flattish water(freeride) somewhere it can be gusty or light, then cams will be your friend.
As a learner, you're going to be harder on the gear than a more experienced sailor. Pryde seem to be a bit more fragile than some other brands (in my experience anyway). You'd be hard pressed to go past a wave oriented sail with x-ply to take the abuse that you're going to throw at it.
JP747, I'm around 105 kg, and it was around 30-40 that day. The Koyote is very stable and I know you cannot do speeds like that easily unless your sail is stable and holds it shape. I think McDougal has taken detail from the Koncept and reworked it into a no cam sail, guess thats why it works so well. I tried the same with my 5,3 Kult wave/freeride sail with less batterns and that was harder due to it being less stable and twisting almost in half. That said it still did 41 knot peaks.
Then theres the effort on the 2002 Kaos wavesail..
Date : Sunday, September 24, 2006
Spot : Sandy Point, Victoria, Australia
Board : Starboard Acid 94
Sail : KA Sails Kaos Wave 4.7
Fin : Starboard Drake Wave 24
GPS type :
Average speed : 38.38 knots (39.4 39.1 38.1 37.8 37.5)
Max. GPS (display) : 41.5 knots
Max. 2 sec. (software) : 40.7 knots
100 m run : 40.2 knots
250 m run : 39.2 knots
500 m run : 38.5 knots
Nautical mile : 19.4 knots
1 hour : 10.1 knots
Distance : 34.3 km
Windspeed : 25 knots
Windgusts : 40 knots
Untill a few years ago, I've had slalom boards and race sails, but got tired of it all in our choppy crap. So I got a freeride board and sail, Ezzy Infinity 6.6, much better.
The Ezzy has a narrow luff pocket and a couple of cams, great sail, never any dramas, highly recomended. Earlier this year I got Loft 5.9 O2, my first ever no cam sail. Wow what a great sail, so light in my hands and easy handling powered up in our crap, got a new max speed the first time I used it.
What I'm trying to say is, a camed freeride sail like a Infinity etc, will be OK no worries. But a no cam like the Loft O2 (cheap) or the Koyote etc will be sweet, go no cam.
I have no experience with the Diablo, sorry.
My 2c
If you are a beginner go with a no cam. No ifs or buts..
If you can sail and your not droping your sail in the water I would recommend a "Friendly" Cammed sail. ie not a race sail, not even a V8 but more a V6 style of sail. I my first big sail was a 6m 1999 v6. Great sail.
or a good quality no cammed sail.
Given this is coming from someone using race sails. I would strongly recommend avoiding race sails at all costs. You are after comfort and with comfort comes enjoyment and performance.
Chad
robby naish once said - "life is like cams vs no cams. you start life pooin yer pants and doing stupid things, then you get to middle age and do nothing stupid or exciting, then you get old and start pooing yer pants and doing stupid things again. Just like cams, you start with no cams and everything seems exciting, start using cams and doing nothing exciting, then go back to no-cams again and start pooin yer pants while doing stupid things" 
putting flame suit on - on behalf of robby naish
was naughty of robby to say such things
was naughty of robby to say such things
was naughty of robby to say such things
The advantage of cam sails is that when the wind varies alot and goes up and down a cam sail as opposed to a non-cam sail is very stable. Another advantage of cam sail is having more forward drive than a non-cam sail.
I have no experience with cam sail but i witness this myself.
There is no one answer to cams vs no cams. It depends on your ability, what type of sailing you enjoy, the water state plus wind strength.
As mentioned above, beginners should steer clear of cams. However if the beginner aims to go blasting then they should look at buying a fairly stable sail once they are in the position to do so. If the water is generally fairly rough then its probably better to use a softer sail without cams. Again as the wind strength increases the need for cams reduces. By the point you are powered up on a 3.5, control is more important than power.
Edit: So perhaps the answer depends on what your starting position is and then there is a sliding scale towards the opposite of your start point.
I took the plunge and purchased my first cambered sail (6.5m) this year. Was a little concerned it might make things more difficult and therefore slow my progress with learning (I have been windsurfing two seasons now).
The sail I purchased can be used with no cams, or a combination of 1 or 2. I removed the upper cam before my first sail with it and to be honest found it no harder to rotate (gybe etc.), water start and generally handle than my non cambered sails. Actually, the rotation of the cam feels much smoother than I expected. With both cams in it might be a different story, but I much prefer using this sail over my non cambered sails now for the type of sailing I do.
So I guess the option is always there if I want to use it with no cams installed. I have rigged it that way in the back yard and it rigs quite flat. I have yet to try it on the water with no cams however but have heard of people using it in the surf this way.
