Can someone help me understand board construction before I purchase my next board? I have two boards currently. The first is a 2021 JP Australia, X foil. I love this board, but the outside seems to be as fragile as an egg shell. It occasionally gets small dings, even though I baby the board. Online I see it is a high density PVC sandwich construction. This is supposed to be very durable.
My second board is a Quatro Wing drifter I bought used. I think it is probably from 2022. Construction is a lightweight EPS foam block wrapped in a combination of carbon and glass laminates. Online I see this should not be as durable as the JP Australia board’s PVC sandwich, but I’ve definitely been rougher with this board and there are no dings at all. So my experience is not matching up with what I’m reading online and I’d like to make sure my next board is not going to ding so easily.
I can’t buy new boards very often, so I need them to last several years.
Carbon is brittle. So yes a sandwich board is better in many ways but if the outer laminate is only carbon it will ding easily. Glass has better impact resistance and abrasion resistance. Your JP is a much stronger board but with no glass it dings a bit easier. The same ding on a non sandwich board would be more likely to let water in and more likely to weaken the structure in a significant manner.
so buy full sandwich boards and treat them nice. Even better get one made and it will actually have a bit more material where needed!!
Mark
MOzCustoms
Less material also means lighter. You'll probably find your JP wing board feel nice and light. A heavier board might last longer, or at least be a bit less sensitive to dings, but you might not enjoy the feeling so something to keep in mind.
Thank you. Your replies are very helpful. I was confused after all my online research but you straightened me out
Sandwich should theoretically be better, offering two layers of protection and better strength. Whether it really is in practice depends on the implementation, because often the individual laminate layers will be very thin to keep weight down.
If the laminate is light fabric, thin and full of pinholes because it has had too much resin pulled out, then maybe covered in a thick layer filler to make it cosmetically good before paint then will it be better? A well implemented single skin is likely to have more layers of cloth and therefore be a bit tougher.
I'm maybe a bit biased by my experience with my gong PVC carbon sandwich board. Cracked both layers in several places with impacts from knee or wing handle and the board took on water. The outer laminate is one light layer of carbon. Water also got between the thick filler layer and the laminate, and all the paint bubbled up. So I've had to strip the whole thing of paint thick filler, patch up the cracks, add some glass to reinforce the rails, and seal it with epoxy filler coat.
I think the wood veneer boards are great. Light weight, tough and last well.
The wood gives some thickness that makes it tough.
sunovasurfboards.com/en-au/pages/technology
Would like to see more xps foam boards. the xps foam does not absorb water like eps. But Xps is heavier and harder to get epoxy to bond with..
^^^ yes for Sunova but not for all wood laminate boards. For example the first purple coloured Fanatic that had the wood stop short of the upper rail (as vac bagging around that curve is hard) and they all crack badly on the top of the rail. I’ve repaired heaps of them.
Wood also causes huge water travel if you ding and ignore it. Bamboo is the worst. So there are no absolutes here, it has to be done right. I use pine a lot in my windsurf and kite boards for impact resistance.
it’s not hard to get epoxy to bond to XPS. the issue is it off gassing with heat or dings cracking the foam underneath, causing gas to release and it delaminates badly. (Appletree claim to have fixed that with a new XPS made for them)
Select to expand quoteAlexnh said..
Sandwich should theoretically be better, offering two layers of protection and better strength.
Not theoretically. It simply is. Sandwich will be stiffer and stronger for same weight.
trouble is the execution in mass production as you found with your Gong.
Decades doing repairs and making boards for animals to jump 30ft high, and seen all the fails trust me. That’s why I build stuff that doesn’t break.
that’s also why I have a go at the folks who reckon a 4kg or less wing board is just wonderful.
saw it with kiting and now winging - so much rubbish construction and crap spouted about online. It’s no surprise the boards that last are often from the brands that come from windsurfing.
Little startups (that became big) from surfers who now foil so they got foam CNCd and bunged two layers of thin carbon on it cos it is ‘strong’ are keeping me in business 😉
Let me explain in a way that makes more sense to the non board builder.
With PVC sandwich construction, you put one thin layer of glass or carbon under the PVC and one layer over the PVC. Making it a sandwich. This makes it strong because it’s a sandwich and light because due to sandwich being strong,………you need less layers of fiberglass or carbon. But, this thin layer of glass or carbon on the outside of the PVC, being thin, makes it puncture prone. The upside, if the puncture isn’t deep enough to penetrate through the sandwich, the board remains water tight.
For non sandwich boards. These are actually cheaper to make. To make non sandwich strong, you need more layers of carbon and fiberglass on the skin to create strength. So a more puncture resistance skin. But when punctured, they take on water fast and board is quickly ruined if owner says, I’ll deal with it later and ride today with this leak.
I bet you’re not really “dinging” the JP, just chipping the paint. The paint will, for sure, be more fragile than a hot coat board but real damage - through the fiber into the core, it should be atleast equal and a lot more durable to pressure, stiffer flex, less prone to delam, water intrusion.
I now see you're in WA Flanners - happy to have a look and advise. No $$ just for advice or quoting.
Mark
MOzCustoms
