Impressive. Like he said in the vid. He was scared to try his sinker. I’m still in that zone. I have a 45L and a 40L just begging for a turn. Water is warming up, so it’s time soon.
He was using quite a large foil however.
1400 cm2 AR 13 and 1000cm2 AR 10 without any problem (18 knots). Just need pull from wing.
I don't see a lot of sense on going on a sinker with such a big foil.... Which is the purpose? First I want to be on a small foil to be able to turn....
Some of the younger crew who are very capable SUP DW ers are doing it. Another issue I see apart from the obvious (makes me think of what happened with winging), is the twitch / sensitivity of a small board. Small board is great in waves but not sure this translates as well riding swell lines.
Select to expand quoteRetina said..
Sinker + Parawing, hard work for average riders?
Recently changed to a 14lts under my body weight for all conditions. The secret sauce is length, I often see people struggling with the nose sinking when trying to get up, extra length stops this and makes getting going simple. Some will say ‘swing weight’, but really, we are riding swell not doing wild cut backs so some extra inches isn’t an issue.
The big manufacturers haven’t worked it out yet, still too much volume in anything longer than 6ft but I’m guessing that will come next season.
6’5x19x68lts Sunova Pilot Mid
Select to expand quoteairsail said..Retina said..
Sinker + Parawing, hard work for average riders?
Recently changed to a 14lts under my body weight for all conditions. The secret sauce is length, I often see people struggling with the nose sinking when trying to get up, extra length stops this and makes getting going simple. Some will say ‘swing weight’, but really, we are riding swell not doing wild cut backs so some extra inches isn’t an issue.
The big manufacturers haven’t worked it out yet, still too much volume in anything longer than 6ft but I’m guessing that will come next season.
6’5x19x68lts Sunova Pilot Mid
www.f-one.world/product/rocket-free-surf/
Available in 6'2 for 71L, so similar.
Anyway, I never get the point of parawing, because sure, you get all that freedom when you fold away the parawing, and then are stuck with a 20ft board and big foil. I think I'd rather wing on a 4'10 board instead, but never tried the para.
A "sinker" doesn't really mean anything, it does not tell the full picture.
Using -10/20/30/40 L as a metric is also meaningless.
-10 L for a 70 kg rider (77% of BW) is not the same as -10 L for a 100 kg rider (89% of BW)
I'm 78 kg and I usually wing either a
- 4'2 x 18 - 25 L (32% of my BW)
or
4'5 x 19 - 30 L (38% of my BW)
I fully sink nose and tail of both of these and I ride the same size wing as others who are on "semi-sinkers" or floaters as long as it's 15 knts and up. (my biggest wing is a 4.8m)
A 55L (70% of my BW) is also a sinker for me.
Yet it's 2x the % of BW of the 25L
My go to PW board is a 5'4 x 19- 60 L
I'm sinking the entire board except for the far end of the nose.
Is that a sinker?
I've also used my 5'0 x 18 x 44 L to PW
I fully sink the nose of that board
It does require for me to go up one size of PW to be able to get up which results in being lit once on foil.
Both my 44L and my 30L are full sinkers, but getting up on a PW with the 30L will probably require to size up 2 sizes of PW.
In all those examples, I'm using the same foils - my mini swell front wing is a 830, and bigger swell front wing is a 530 or 680.
I don't use "bigger" foils because I'm riding a smaller board, I size according to swell size.
So take everything with a pinch of salt when it comes to "sinkers" as the descriptive term doesn't tell the full picture.
Select to expand quoteVenomguy said..
Anything below your body weight is a Sinker.
I'm 78 kg, so 77 L is a sinker for me then? 😉
Select to expand quoteVenomguy said..
Anything below your body weight is a Sinker.
I'm 78 kg, so 77 L is a sinker for me then? 😉
K.I.S.S. method for weight/board volume
>+20= full floater
+1-+19= semi floater
Kg= L is neutral
-1 to -19 semi sinker
<-20= full sinker
Select to expand quoteilboarder12 said..
K.I.S.S. method for weight/board volume
>+20= full floater
+1-+19= semi floater
Kg= L is neutral
-1 to -19 semi sinker
<-20= full sinker
The argument I am trying to make here seems to be completely missed.
-20 L for a 50 kg rider is not the same as -20 L for a 110 kg rider.
The board volume under and above the waterline won't be the same in those 2 scenarios.
Absolute values are meaningless.
While % of BW is a much more meaningful and comparable metric from rider to rider.
Select to expand quoteTangur said..ilboarder12 said..
K.I.S.S. method for weight/board volume
>+20= full floater
+1-+19= semi floater
Kg= L is neutral
-1 to -19 semi sinker
<-20= full sinker
The argument I am trying to make here seems to be completely missed.
-20 L for a 50 kg rider is not the same as -20 L for a 110 kg rider.
The board volume under and above the waterline won't be the same in those 2 scenarios.
Absolute values are meaningless.
While % of BW is a much more meaningful and comparable metric from rider to rider.
Exactly. Anytime someone talks about their experience with a specific literage and they also list their weight in kilograms, I quickly divide the liters by their weight to get the ratio And then multiply that by my weight in kilograms to get the equivalent board size for me to have the same or similar experience.
This is why people should start Listing the liters difference and also the percentage of their body mass so others can quickly make a comparison to their own weight.
Select to expand quoteTangur said..ilboarder12 said..
K.I.S.S. method for weight/board volume
>+20= full floater
+1-+19= semi floater
Kg= L is neutral
-1 to -19 semi sinker
<-20= full sinker
The argument I am trying to make here seems to be completely missed.
-20 L for a 50 kg rider is not the same as -20 L for a 110 kg rider.
The board volume under and above the waterline won't be the same in those 2 scenarios.
Absolute values are meaningless.
While % of BW is a much more meaningful and comparable metric from rider to rider.
What do you gain by having such a small board? Are you doing tricks- spinning the board in mid air or jumping loops etc?
Select to expand quoteMicrosurfer said..Tangur said..ilboarder12 said..
K.I.S.S. method for weight/board volume
>+20= full floater
+1-+19= semi floater
Kg= L is neutral
-1 to -19 semi sinker
+20= full floater
+1-+19= semi floater
Kg= L is neutral
-1 to -19 semi sinker
<-20= full sinker
The argument I am trying to make here seems to be completely missed.
-20 L for a 50 kg rider is not the same as -20 L for a 110 kg rider.
The board volume under and above the waterline won't be the same in those 2 scenarios.
Absolute values are meaningless.
While % of BW is a much more meaningful and comparable metric from rider to rider.
What do you gain by having such a small board? Are you doing tricks- spinning the board in mid air or jumping loops etc?
I'll give you the benefit of doubt and assume that you're not trolling.
I'll also answer your question by asking you why don't you still use your beginner board?
Why did you downsize?
Why aren't we all riding 150L boards with a 2000 cm low-mid aspect foil? 🧐
Select to expand quoteMicrosurfer said..Tangur said..ilboarder12 said..
K.I.S.S. method for weight/board volume
>+20= full floater
+1-+19= semi floater
Kg= L is neutral
-1 to -19 semi sinker
<-20= full sinker
The argument I am trying to make here seems to be completely missed.
-20 L for a 50 kg rider is not the same as -20 L for a 110 kg rider.
The board volume under and above the waterline won't be the same in those 2 scenarios.
Absolute values are meaningless.
While % of BW is a much more meaningful and comparable metric from rider to rider.
What do you gain by having such a small board? Are you doing tricks- spinning the board in mid air or jumping loops etc?
I agree as I tow foil with a 28l board at 94kg and do not suddenly turn into Kai Lenny. Do the same turns on my parawing board or sup foil drive when I did that. Watch guys turn long DW boards and you realise it is more ability than tiny boards.
Select to expand quotehilly said..Microsurfer said..Tangur said..ilboarder12 said..
K.I.S.S. method for weight/board volume
>+20= full floater
+1-+19= semi floater
Kg= L is neutral
-1 to -19 semi sinker
<-20= full sinker
The argument I am trying to make here seems to be completely missed.
-20 L for a 50 kg rider is not the same as -20 L for a 110 kg rider.
The board volume under and above the waterline won't be the same in those 2 scenarios.
Absolute values are meaningless.
While % of BW is a much more meaningful and comparable metric from rider to rider.
What do you gain by having such a small board? Are you doing tricks- spinning the board in mid air or jumping loops etc?
I agree as I tow foil with a 28l board at 94kg and do not suddenly turn into Kai Lenny. Do the same turns on my parawing board or sup foil drive when I did that. Watch guys turn long DW boards and you realise it is more ability than tiny boards.
Why buy a 28L board to tow and not tow on your parawing board or your sup foil board? 🤔😉
Select to expand quoteTangur said..Microsurfer said..Tangur said..ilboarder12 said..
K.I.S.S. method for weight/board volume
>+20= full floater
+1-+19= semi floater
Kg= L is neutral
-1 to -19 semi sinker
+20= full floater
+1-+19= semi floater
Kg= L is neutral
-1 to -19 semi sinker
<-20= full sinker
The argument I am trying to make here seems to be completely missed.
-20 L for a 50 kg rider is not the same as -20 L for a 110 kg rider.
The board volume under and above the waterline won't be the same in those 2 scenarios.
Absolute values are meaningless.
While % of BW is a much more meaningful and comparable metric from rider to rider.
What do you gain by having such a small board? Are you doing tricks- spinning the board in mid air or jumping loops etc?
I'll give you the benefit of doubt and assume that you're not trolling.
I'll also answer your question by asking you why don't you still use your beginner board?
Why did you downsize?
Why aren't we all riding 150L boards with a 2000 cm low-mid aspect foil? 🧐
No not trolling just genuinely curious as to what motivates you to ride small boards. I guess the obvious answer is that they're more agile hence the question about free style, however do you notice that much of a difference between a sinker & say a midi?
For me getting started easily is a main factor but I'm guessing you may not come off foil that much or maybe it's really windy where you ride so maybe starting off is not as important to you. Do you chase after performance gains with each component of your equipment?
To answer your question I downsized from a huge square 130l board to a 85l board because that's what everyone said to do. That board was a pig to ride so I made a 7'x20 DW board which I loved. I guess I upsized but more importantly changed board shape. I have made a few boards since then of various lengths however I can't stop riding my 7' boards. I just love how they carve- effortlessly, graceful. Horses for courses I spose.
I'm currently trying to dial in a 6'x20" & Man, I take my hat off to you guys who ride small boards - they are a pain in the arse.😁 I'm not at the stage yet where i can tell if I'll get any tangible benefits from the smaller board but in the meantime it's another challenge to keep things interesting.
I guess when i am riding bumps the swing weight of a 6' board seems to match the sharpness of the turns you might hope to do riding downwind. A down wind board definitely felt limiting but a mid feels just right to me. I can go to a 4kg board if i need to but at 6' i don't feel the board is stopping me ripping tighter turns in the bumps, more likely the foil.
If I was parawinging in proper waves then i would say that the direction changes you might hope for require something as close as you can get to a prone board. In really soft rolly waves like they get at kaa in maui for example then I feel a mid would be a nice match.
Select to expand quoteTangur said..hilly said..Microsurfer said..Tangur said..ilboarder12 said..
K.I.S.S. method for weight/board volume
>+20= full floater
+1-+19= semi floater
Kg= L is neutral
-1 to -19 semi sinker
<-20= full sinker
The argument I am trying to make here seems to be completely missed.
-20 L for a 50 kg rider is not the same as -20 L for a 110 kg rider.
The board volume under and above the waterline won't be the same in those 2 scenarios.
Absolute values are meaningless.
While % of BW is a much more meaningful and comparable metric from rider to rider.
What do you gain by having such a small board? Are you doing tricks- spinning the board in mid air or jumping loops etc?
I agree as I tow foil with a 28l board at 94kg and do not suddenly turn into Kai Lenny. Do the same turns on my parawing board or sup foil drive when I did that. Watch guys turn long DW boards and you realise it is more ability than tiny boards.
Why buy a 28L board to tow and not tow on your parawing board or your sup foil board? 🤔😉
Easier to start towing on a small board. Cannot sink start over 40l.
I weigh 83kg and ride a 68L board to parawing.
The reason why is the bumps i ride are usually not big or powerful. So I want a really efficient and reactive board for pumping.
I have a 6'8" x 19 x 92L board, i rarely use it because it is way harder to pump.
Select to expand quoteMeonAsh said..
I weigh 83kg and ride a 68L board to parawing.
The reason why is the bumps i ride are usually not big or powerful. So I want a really efficient and reactive board for pumping.
I have a 6'8" x 19 x 92L board, i rarely use it because it is way harder to pump.
Yeah exactly. My old 55L is the same ratio (82% of my 68kgs). Even bumping up 3” and a couple liters to 85% ratio board is a noticeable increase in size and feel. The inability to easily grab the board’s nose when going from standing to seated is a major bummer. That alone means more swimming and climbing on the board after a botched start or stall off a swell.
We gotta stop us in the word sinker in these discussions. It means something different for each rider. % of body weight so we know what each other are talking about
Select to expand quoteTangur said..Venomguy said..
Anything below your body weight is a Sinker.
I'm 78 kg, so 77 L is a sinker for me then? 😉
Yes, just don’t wing on a empty stomach 🤣
