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Back injury - kitesurfing

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Created by Franz > 9 months ago, 27 Oct 2012
Gorgo
VIC, 5127 posts
3 Nov 2012 10:36PM
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hamburglar said...
.....

yet you provide what you say to avoid ??



It was a joke ... sort of ... and I did not provide any medical advice. I related my experience and gave some kiting advice. I thought I was giving some positive feedback in terms of my own experience with a broken back and continuing to be active.

It still remains that the best assessment of the man's back injury is a trained medical professional, preferably someone who specialises in sports medicine.

Craig66
NSW, 2466 posts
4 Nov 2012 7:45PM
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As said, you cant keep a good man down.

Yesterday the "man" was on his MTB on a easy ride.

Today 4/11/2012 at 3.20 pm at Nobbys the "man" took to the water in the Kiddies pool behind the reef.

There was no bigger smile on his face after only 10 minutes of kiting.

But im not quite sure if he needed to chuck in a couple of back rolls

Good that you back buddy

eppo
WA, 9793 posts
4 Nov 2012 5:30PM
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Mate that MRI looks bloody terrible. Some great advice here. I don't have the back problems and injuries anywhere near what these guys are talking about but I do suffer from back pain, which inflames my bloody sciata nerve all the time. I also have a permanently dislocated AC joint which can add to the fun. All from my footy days.

Well it did.

I would go the SUP advice, the core workout is unbelievable.

Also I have a daily and nightly stretch routine.

Also not sure what some bloke was talking about that waist harnesses are best. Maybe they are as I'm no doctor but since I starting using seat harnesses again with a dyna bar, never had back pain since. They pull from lower down allowing you to hang off the harness and straighten your legs. I'm no bio mechanist but this makes sense to me. Also the experience fits to.

But as someone said get another MRI and professional advice then implement some of the strategies suggestd here if they comply with what the doctor says. I know some blokes with real bad backs and their quality of life is just terrible. Please take care.

spikeysteve
WA, 84 posts
4 Nov 2012 8:25PM
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Take any advice you get from Internet forums with a grain of salt.

I am in a unique position to comment on this - kitesurfer, chiropractor, have suffered two separate herniated discs in my lower back.

1. Get yourself a good healthcare professional. I would recommend a good chiro because they deal with spines all day every day. A good spinal specialist physio can work also. traction should help. You have never been down this road before, they probably have been, they can offer their experience and treatment. They should do a thorough history and examination, and explain what the problem is and what they think that they can do to help BEFORE they treat you.

You should feel comfortable with them and their approach, and happy that you can work as a team. Anyone that dosent examine you properly, or ask you a heap of questions, should be avoided like the plague. As an example, i would do an average of 50 - 100 nerve and muscle tests on any new client. This minimises the chances of people not diagnosing you properly.

2. Anything you do will need to be repeated. be it stretches, exercises, mobilizations, or chiropractic adjustments. You dont retrain the body by doing things once. As an example, if someone like you was to walk into my office, I would probably plan to see you about 24 times over the course of 6 months. see below

3. Healing takes time. Any client of mine with a disc injury I give a 1 year time frame. First 3 months of active recovery - getting you back to close to pre injury status, improving mobility, decreasing pain. four to six months - getting core strength back, improving on stage one. 7 to 12 months - be careful, but start getting into stuff again. clinically speaking, i have found that a re injury within 12 months can put you right back to (close to) square one. taking it easy for a while will pay off in the long term.

Also recovery will be up and down. If your more down than up, do something different.

I almost underwent a second surgery on an ankle injury because i went surfing at ****ty 2 foot scarborough one month earlier than planned. I know its tough, but better safe than sorry with your spine

4. No pain dose not mean no injury. What do you think happens to those guys that have a back that is fine most of the time but hurts some of the time? It dosent magically go away, the problem just sits there and gets aggravated and settles down. dont stop doing the good stuff for your rehab when the pain stops (a problem that i have regularly with my clients, even though they know better). Wait till you have close to full strenght and mobility back, rather than just 'not hurting'

5. Core muscles do not fire properly when you are in pain. Dont try and strengthen when your back is sore.

6. Any brace will only take the place of your core muscles. Use them, but dont rely on them.

7. Sup is great for core, make sure you have a paddle that is longer rather than shorter, flexion (forward bending) will wreck your back. Once you are strong enough, kiting will help, but take it easy until fully recovered. Gym programs should be personalized to your specific problem.

Mate, dont wrap yourself in cotton wool, but take it easy, and get some smart people on your team. Pay the money, take the time, do it properly, and there should be very minimal long term consequence. Ignore it, put up with it, dont do it properly, can have bad future outcomes.

As an example, from my second disc injury, I was back kitesurfing and doing MMA within 6 months, and going full on in the year, and have had no problems since - unless i do something stupid, dont keep up my core work or dont get adjusted for a while when i need to.



Franz
NSW, 7 posts
4 Nov 2012 11:31PM
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Firstly:
Cheers guys for sharing your experience with me/us and thanks for the great support !

Secondly to get rid of misunderstandings:
I started this post to see if other kiter got similar injuries so I could see how they have dealt with their situation and I could possibly benefit from their experience.
I certainly won't seek medical advice from non professionals but any help is more than welcome.

I've had my Neurosurgeon follow up on Thursday this week and he was very pleased with my recovery.
The fracture has healed itself, the herniated disc has flattened ( sorry can't remember the correct medical term ) already and there's now enough clearance to the spinal cord - not threatened anymore of getting paralysed.
He also confirmed what my physio said:
With the injury comes a lifetime membership at the gym, daily core strengthening exercise and lots, lots, lots of stretching.
When in pain, stop what you're doing and do some stretching.

Anyways, with the help and support of mates I've battled the elements today and made my way back on the water. That included one hour of testing several types of harness, flying a relatively small kite on the shore with carefully observating my back for any unpleasant tension, any possible tingling in my legs, some resting with more observation, stretching.....
...until I couldn't hold it any longer.
Grabbed my mates board and went for it...
And it was fun-****in-tastic ( pardon my french.)

This being said, I truely appreciate your support for sharing your experience.

I'm glad that you guys made it back to the sport we love so much and wish you all a great summer.

See you on the water then...

Cheers guys


spikeysteve
WA, 84 posts
4 Nov 2012 8:33PM
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Paul1 said...
Most people have some form of spondylolisthesis, Chiro's nearly always diagnose this. An x-ray is basically useless, go get an MRI at least and see a proper neurologist/back surgeon. I have had some extremely bad experiences with Chiro's and have been warned off them by all professionals I meet. They generally give you a bit of relief then sucker you into a lengthy re-hab that does zero. Good luck.


Mate, you clearly dont have a clue what you are talking about.

spondylolisthisis - an anterior or posterior displacement of one vertebral segment on the other. present most commonly around L5 slipping anterior on S1 due to a fracture, most commonly either asymptomatic or due to excess extension. present in between 5-7% of the population.

spondylosis - basically spinal arthritis. Yes, lots of people have it, lots of people have spinal problems, and the spine will wear out quicker than normal in the bits that arent working properly.

Just coz a chiro hasent worked for you in the past, dosent mean they dont work.

I had a bad meal at a cafe once, so i dont eat out anymore ;)

also, only go see a suergon if you have gotten a good recommendation, or you want to undergo spinal surgery.

eppo
WA, 9793 posts
4 Nov 2012 9:06PM
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Agreed. Had nothing but good results from a particular Chiro ( who happened to have a degree in medicine as well). There is a strange misnomer is Australia about chiros and it has become a strange wife's tale about the perils of using a Chiro. Been to plenty of physios will little results. Like anything depends on the quality of the practitioner. To lump them in all in the same problematic place is very limited and reveals a lack of knowledge and or experience.

On a brighter notes, wow awesome you got out mate, that's awesome news.

tgladman
WA, 500 posts
4 Nov 2012 11:06PM
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Paul1 said...
Most people have some form of spondylolisthesis, Chiro's nearly always diagnose this. An x-ray is basically useless, go get an MRI at least and see a proper neurologist/back surgeon. I have had some extremely bad experiences with Chiro's and have been warned off them by all professionals I meet. They generally give you a bit of relief then sucker you into a lengthy re-hab that does zero. Good luck.


Fact of the matter is, Chiro is for some, physio is for some and "other" is for others. People need to do what works for them, not criticize other people's choices. In my case, had a back injury, tried this, that and the other and found Chiro worked best for me (backed up with x-ray evidence of correcting my scholiosis) but no need to go blowing any trumpets about miracle cures tho. Hope you have a speedy recovery and get back on the water soon! Good winds!

Paul1
QLD, 1011 posts
5 Nov 2012 1:56PM
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spikeysteve said...
Paul1 said...
Most people have some form of spondylolisthesis, Chiro's nearly always diagnose this. An x-ray is basically useless, go get an MRI at least and see a proper neurologist/back surgeon. I have had some extremely bad experiences with Chiro's and have been warned off them by all professionals I meet. They generally give you a bit of relief then sucker you into a lengthy re-hab that does zero. Good luck.


Mate, you clearly dont have a clue what you are talking about.

spondylolisthisis - an anterior or posterior displacement of one vertebral segment on the other. present most commonly around L5 slipping anterior on S1 due to a fracture, most commonly either asymptomatic or due to excess extension. present in between 5-7% of the population.

spondylosis - basically spinal arthritis. Yes, lots of people have it, lots of people have spinal problems, and the spine will wear out quicker than normal in the bits that arent working properly.

Just coz a chiro hasent worked for you in the past, dosent mean they dont work.

I had a bad meal at a cafe once, so i dont eat out anymore ;)

also, only go see a suergon if you have gotten a good recommendation, or you want to undergo spinal surgery.


Sorry if I have offended you and your profession mate, but my experience and that of others on the Goldy is terrible, maybe they are just all rip off merchants over here. I personally spent thousands on complete lies.

Paul1
QLD, 1011 posts
5 Nov 2012 1:58PM
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eppo said...
Agreed. Had nothing but good results from a particular Chiro ( who happened to have a degree in medicine as well). There is a strange misnomer is Australia about chiros and it has become a strange wife's tale about the perils of using a Chiro. Been to plenty of physios will little results. Like anything depends on the quality of the practitioner. To lump them in all in the same problematic place is very limited and reveals a lack of knowledge and or experience.

On a brighter notes, wow awesome you got out mate, that's awesome news.


Lack of knowledge and experience? Jeez mate I should have known you were an expert on this also.

Gorgo
VIC, 5127 posts
5 Nov 2012 3:11PM
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spikeysteve said...
...

also, only go see a suergon if you have gotten a good recommendation, or you want to undergo spinal surgery.


My experience differs. I have spoken to several orthopedic surgeons over the years. The ones I spoke to were very keen to avoid surgery.

What they did do in every case was go through the scans and explain exactly what was happening and what the options and consequences were.

In one case a cortisone injection relieved the pain and removed the irritation allowing the injury to heal itself.

In two cases just using paracetamol achieved a similar result.

In almost every case, managing the pain and waiting about 6 weeks usually resulted in a "cure".

I have visited chiros and physios and osteopaths and acupuncturists and chinese medicine practitioners. The result is usually the same, wait 6 weeks and the pain goes away. The thing that varies is the explanation, the repeat visits, and the accumulating fees.

I liked the chinese medicine guy best (his treatments made me laugh, kind of like the ad with the guy banging fish together) and the osteopath (very cute, nice back rub and we chatted about movies)

eppo
WA, 9793 posts
5 Nov 2012 3:53PM
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Paul1 said...
eppo said...
Agreed. Had nothing but good results from a particular Chiro ( who happened to have a degree in medicine as well). There is a strange misnomer is Australia about chiros and it has become a strange wife's tale about the perils of using a Chiro. Been to plenty of physios will little results. Like anything depends on the quality of the practitioner. To lump them in all in the same problematic place is very limited and reveals a lack of knowledge and or experience.

On a brighter notes, wow awesome you got out mate, that's awesome news.


Lack of knowledge and experience? Jeez mate I should have known you were an expert on this also.




No think I made that perfectly clear. Although you seem to be the expert in launching kites.

Again awesome you are out on the water mate. Baby steps no 30 foot boosts just yet hey!

spikeysteve
WA, 84 posts
5 Nov 2012 3:56PM
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Paul1 said...

Sorry if I have offended you and your profession mate, but my experience and that of others on the Goldy is terrible, maybe they are just all rip off merchants over here. I personally spent thousands on complete lies.


Gorgo said...
My experience differs. I have spoken to several orthopedic surgeons over the years. The ones I spoke to were very keen to avoid surgery.


I suppose that its all about finding someone that works well with you. I have experienced a number of 'cut first ask questions later' and 'come back when the pain is really bad' surgeons. I also know of a number of very conservative ones, like you have obviously seen and refer to them. But I find that they are not the majority.

Also, if you are seeing a chiro, surgeon, or anyone for that matter, and the results are not what you expect, let them know, and maybe do things differently. I cant help everyone that walks through the door, and if what i do is not working i will refer to someone else. Dont wait till you have spent 'thousands' but dont expect a one visit miracle.

referrals from trusted people are the way to go.

jasonk
QLD, 23 posts
6 Nov 2012 10:19PM
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Hi Franz

I have L5 / S1 disc prolapse.

I use a Dakine fusion seat harness which I find offers a lot of back support. Trouble was in the surf it was too restrictive when kiting toeside on a surfboard but then along came a dynabar V7 and my problems were solved.

I also endorse the SUP for core and found that the mountain bike offered a lot of stretch in the lower back and legs. I find when I don't kite for say 3 weeks or more the back will flare up so my advice is to stay as active as you physically can.

Different things work for different people so try all that has been discussed in this thread and hopefully you will find the things that work for you.

Best of luck in managing your injury.



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"Back injury - kitesurfing" started by Franz