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Insurance

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Created by TurtleHunter > 9 months ago, 6 Aug 2010
TurtleHunter
WA, 1675 posts
6 Aug 2010 3:07PM
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Just got my yachting Australia silver card with my yacht club membership.
They now cover kiteboarding as well as sailing and includes
$75000 personal accident insurance.
The Exmouth Yacht Club charges $50 per year and $20 nomination fee so is a similar cost to AKSA.
It doesn't have public liability but why do you need public liability unless your part of an organised event.
So now the yacht club can run events like regattas under their insurance and if I hurt myself in the middle of nowhere I have my own insurance to cover ambulance,medical fees etc.
All I need now is wind.

Juddy
WA, 1103 posts
6 Aug 2010 3:39PM
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TurtleHunter said...
It doesn't have public liability but why do you need public liability unless your part of an organised event.


For the simple fact that if a kiter injures a person walking down the beach, swimming at the beach, watching kiters, etc etc, or damages a car, or other private property, the kiter 'might' need public liability insurance....

The potential for that sort of incident is likely regardless of participation in an organised event or not.

Certainly personal injury insurance is always a good idea, but certainly not at the risk of no PL insurance.

TurtleHunter
WA, 1675 posts
6 Aug 2010 3:51PM
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True but who has public liability for riding a bike or surfing or anything else they do by themselves.
Plus around these parts there's not much public where I kite
Is there anywhere you need public liability to use the beach?

Juddy
WA, 1103 posts
6 Aug 2010 4:02PM
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TurtleHunter said...

True but who has public liability for riding a bike or surfing or anything else they do by themselves.
Plus around these parts there's not much public where I kite


TH, you are lucky that your beaches aren't cluttered with bodies on the sand; kids & sand castles & attentive parents; swimmers & dog walkers. I envy you.

I don't have PL insurance for riding a bike or surfing but I sure do for car, home etc. The whole thing behind insurance is that it's there just in case you need it...no point crying about the house that's burnt down if you didn't pay for home contents insurance.

Your example about bikes & surfing? Sure, if a cyclist takes out a pedestrian sometime, don't be surprised if the pedestrian then turns around & wants his/her medical and other costs covered....it's only a matter of time before a swimmer gets clipped by a fin & it ends up in court.

Insurance? Better to have than not to have IMO. Flame suit on....

TurtleHunter
WA, 1675 posts
6 Aug 2010 4:34PM
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Yep I am lucky although its always a choice.
But why are we so different to all the other past times?
I mean surfing has been around for hundreds of years so surely it would of come to a head by now.
Do windsurfers have public liability. I also read that only half the kite boarders are with AKSA and most only join to go to a event but every car on the road needs it.
So are there places where you must have it? It heard something about Cott council requiring it a few years ago

TurtleHunter
WA, 1675 posts
6 Aug 2010 4:36PM
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Ps... you can keep your flame suit I'm a risk taker

Juddy
WA, 1103 posts
6 Aug 2010 4:54PM
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Re: Kiting @ Dutchies: as I understand it, it is a condition that if you want to kite @ Dutch Inn (or within Town of Cottesloe) you are required to have PL insurance. How much it’s enforced is another thing altogether. It was a negotiated settlement back in 2004/05 in order to maintain access to Dutchies for kiters after the council nearly banned kiting there.

Half the kite boarders are with AKSA? AKSA had better lift their game then TL & convince the other 50% to join up!!

IMO, if PL insurance is a requirement of participation in an event, seems that AKSA membership (that includes that PL insurance) isn’t such a hard ask. No idea about poleys & PL – not my thing.

junglist
VIC, 701 posts
6 Aug 2010 7:41PM
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Turtle

Can you confirm the company that is covering the Yacht Club? PM me if you want.

The whole situation where kiters cannot get personal injury insurance is bizarre. I have tried a number of insurers (even extreme sports insurers) with no luck.

It seems the Poms can have it but Aussies can not

Cheers

TurtleHunter
WA, 1675 posts
6 Aug 2010 7:10PM
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Hey Junglist
Maybe AKSA will be able to provide Personal accident insurance now ISAF (international sailing federation) recognises kiting as sailing. However they probably should have worked it out quicker than the little old Exmouth Yacht club.
Yachting Australia provides the cover as they see us exactly the same as yachties.
I am not sure of all the details yet but they are backed by oamps.
I presume they would cover any sailing(kiting) club which you would think includes AKSA.
Maybe check with your local yacht club although from what I've heard most yacht clubs are a lot more expensive than Exmouth.
I should probably put this thread on the AKSA forum but then who looks at that.
I remember you bringing posts up in the past regarding this subject so if you still don't have any luck maybe you could join the Exmouth yacht club.

manicskier
VIC, 772 posts
7 Aug 2010 12:32PM
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Juddy said...

TurtleHunter said...
It doesn't have public liability but why do you need public liability unless your part of an organised event.


For the simple fact that if a kiter injures a person walking down the beach, swimming at the beach, watching kiters, etc etc, or damages a car, or other private property, the kiter 'might' need public liability insurance....

The potential for that sort of incident is likely regardless of participation in an organised event or not.

Certainly personal injury insurance is always a good idea, but certainly not at the risk of no PL insurance.


Unfortunately i dont think you are covered by anything. It may say that you have PL insurance from AKSA/State Org (Waksa, kbv etv) but this was done to death last year and in the wash out i recall that it was stated (by AKSA i believe) that there had been several claims on the insurance but none had paid out. It was also suggested that you be very careful with how and where your kite, as if it is deemed that you have been negligent your insurance will be void, a couple of examples that i can think of:-
kiting in a no boating zone
exceeding the speed limit to close to shore
kiting on a beach with lots of pedestrians (may be construed as negligent)
equipment failure (your fault for not maintaining your gear correctly)
tangle on launch (your fault for not checking things correctly, or getting an assisted launch)
kiting in winds stronger than recommended for your particular kite
....

i could go on, but i dont think there is any circumstance where it could not be argued that you were at fault for whatever reason and therefore voiding your insurance.

So your $5 insurance (i think it was some token amount like this that AKSA pays for insurance for each individual member) isnt worth the certificate of currency that it is written on.... which you dont even get anyway.

my 2 cents

manicskier
VIC, 772 posts
7 Aug 2010 12:34PM
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But i do agree that it is important to have PL insurance and persoanl injury insurance, just saying that i wouldnt have faith in the insurance provided by AKSA and co and i fyou really wanted to be covered i would try to get some private insurance and read the fine print (and pay a real amount for this insurance)

TurtleHunter
WA, 1675 posts
7 Aug 2010 11:25AM
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Interesting I didn't realise claims had been made. But then it doesn't surprise me none have been paid.
One of the positives of the Yachting Australia system is its an established cover that has been around for years and years.

manicskier
VIC, 772 posts
7 Aug 2010 4:40PM
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I couldnt find the thread i was thinking off... it was many pages and must have been older than a year, however in this thread there are some interesting words from AKSA...

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=55155

AKSA said...

No there has never been a payout. There has certainly been a significant number of claims lodged & fielded by our insurers but fortunately, thus far, kiters actions must have been reasonable & responsible enough to avoid any liability. Members should be prepared for significant cost increases to occur as soon as there is a successful claim.

There will be an interesting story on our website shortly reporting on one incident last year. It will outline many lessons we could all learn from. It is underway but cannot be published until the matter is fully resolved, obviously.

More answers/info when they come to hand.



So read that anyway you like, i know how i read it

EDIT: i did find it... somewhere in this dirty mess
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=43148

TurtleHunter
WA, 1675 posts
7 Aug 2010 9:39PM
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I was wondering if there have been several claims not paid out does that mean the insurer's lawyers successfully defended the member. That to me would mean AKSA have done their job for the members

Yoshee
WA, 23 posts
7 Aug 2010 9:40PM
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Most people have liability insurance through their basic House and contents insurance that covers at home and at other accident sites and dont even realise.

Read your PDS.

TurtleHunter
WA, 1675 posts
7 Aug 2010 11:42PM
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jeez is there any black and white answers with insurance

AKSA
NSW, 46 posts
8 Aug 2010 9:47AM
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TurtleHunter said...

I was wondering if there have been several claims not paid out does that mean the insurer's lawyers successfully defended the member. That to me would mean AKSA have done their job for the members


Not sure of the total number of claims lodged since 2000 but YES every claim has been defended by the insurers on the kiters behalf. A way better option than having to defend it yourself - even if the eventual outcome is no claim payable.
There is an interesting claim in progress at the moment which will be reported in detail when the lawyers have finished with it. There is one kiter out there who is very pleased he was a member.
More on that one when we are allowed.

and why are you shocked TH

TurtleHunter
WA, 1675 posts
8 Aug 2010 9:13AM
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Cheers AKSA.
So is there any word on personal accident insurance. It would seem AKSA could include the yachting Australia silver card in there membership.
Again I know this should be on the AKSA forum but...

KIT33R
NSW, 1716 posts
8 Aug 2010 9:42PM
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Didn't any of you people see the beginning of this thread.

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=68051

Without AKSA insurance and the efforts of AKSA committee this claim would not have been met.

TurtleHunter
WA, 1675 posts
8 Aug 2010 8:27PM
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^^^^ I suppose that shows there is more to being a member of one of the state associations than just insurance, much like the problems with joondalup council where the state association is out there keeping a good vibe between us and them. Would of had nothing to do with the public liability though from what I understand.
So far it seems having a Central association is important but there cover is lacking

nebbian
WA, 6277 posts
8 Aug 2010 8:38PM
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TurtleHunter said...
Do windsurfers have public liability.


If they are registered with their state windsurfing association, then I'm pretty sure that the answer is yes.

What makes me a bit annoyed is that although I'm a member of Windsurfing WA, which covers me when I'm windsurfing, I have to become a member of the equivalent kitesurfing association if I'm to be insured when I'm kiting. Surely as I can't do both at once I should be able to get insurance for whichever sport I happen to be doing at the time, without having to pay twice? Seems a bit daft to me.

KIT33R
NSW, 1716 posts
9 Aug 2010 10:00AM
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^^ Good point.

Adrenalin Rush
QLD, 876 posts
9 Aug 2010 5:30PM
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"Australian Wind Sports Association".

Thats a lot of work involved.

manicskier
VIC, 772 posts
9 Aug 2010 5:52PM
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AKSA said...

TurtleHunter said...




Not sure of the total number of claims lodged since 2000 but YES every claim has been defended by the insurers on the kiters behalf. A way better option than having to defend it yourself - even if the eventual outcome is no claim payable.



Well yes, this is a good outcome for the claims that have been made. Question though, is there more detailed information about the circumstances of each claim? How many of the claims defended so far have been lost, ie the kiter was many liable and had to pay. Or have all claims been successful on the kiters behalf?

KIT33R said...

Didn't any of you people see the beginning of this thread.

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=68051

Without AKSA insurance and the efforts of AKSA committee this claim would not have been met.


Yes this is good to, i dont recall seeing that, thanks

Bigwavedave
QLD, 2057 posts
9 Aug 2010 6:29PM
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My contents insurance has a mobile clause that enables me to be covered anywhere I go for liability insurance.

No exclusions for kitesurfing in the fine print.

jev7337
QLD, 460 posts
10 Aug 2010 2:13PM
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Recently got a new house & contents with GIO and PL for Kite surfing is included.
It's definitely worth checking yours.

I read up about AKSA and what they cover but it looks like anything related to holding a kite on a beach or water is not covered. So why bother?

Has anyone any experience dealing with IKO? Being a worldwide organisation one would assume they they got it sorted.

sir ROWDY
WA, 5378 posts
10 Aug 2010 1:59PM
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jev7337 said...


Has anyone any experience dealing with IKO? Being a worldwide organisation one would assume they they got it sorted.


Based out of the dominican republic... Good luck.

TurtleHunter
WA, 1675 posts
10 Aug 2010 8:06PM
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^^^^^yep

jev7337
QLD, 460 posts
11 Aug 2010 11:56AM
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There must be a reason, if a could chose where to work I'd definitely keep the dominican republic as an option - warm and one of the best kitsurfing scenes on the planet - Cabarete! Besides, some of our well known kite brands are based there too

IKO is internationally recognised and have members from all over the world - quite a few more than AKSA I suspect. It doesn't mean if its not Aussie its not good ...well maybe

Just suggesting to consider your options if you look for an insurance that will cover you for kitesurfing accidents that are related to kitesurfing.

A currently am, and I've been a member of KVB and therefor AKSA for some years now - more out of support reasons. If I would have had an accident in this time, it would have been more likely that my PL from my house and contents insurance would have covered it than AKSA.

Anyone from AKSA reading this?? Any comments??

jev7337
QLD, 460 posts
11 Aug 2010 11:58AM
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...my spelling is awesome that time in the morning.

little o
WA, 405 posts
11 Aug 2010 10:33AM
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www.hugedomains.com/domain_profile.cfm?d=waksa&e=com

thats a summary of cover in WAKSA:

Excess $1,500 each and every claim. This excess will not be paid by AKSA and is the
responsibility of the relevant member of the association

What is covered? You are covered for your legal liability to pay:
All sums by way of compensation and all costs awarded against you in respect
of:
? Third Party Personal Injury
? Third Party Property Damage
That occur during the policy period and subject to the terms and conditions of
the policy wording (a copy of which is available from AKSA)
[note that policy exclusion 25 (participation exclusion) is deleted



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"Insurance" started by TurtleHunter