I'm after some advice
i currently have a couple of C4's and i will be doing a crossing over open ocean later in the year and i was wondering if size for size (of the same year) do the edges have more power than the c4's
the reason for asking is i am heavier than the average rider (102kg)and although the recommended sizes for the crossing by the organizers is a nine and a 12m for the predicted wind conditions (and an 80kg rider )
i plan to take a larger kite (13 or 14m maybe) just in case and would like to stick with ozone preferably
No..and the difference becomes increasingly great the more efficient board you ride. TT difference is still apparent, on a race board very different, I'd say near two kite sizes.
Depends though if you plan to do the Crossing on a C4 unhooked and looping all the way...then the C4 would shine
There was a story in the Kiteworld Mag #57 June '12. A guy circumnavigated Isle of Wright using C4s, a TT, and SB.
Check that out if you can dig up that story on google, but anyway I would have thought the edge was a better tool for the job. I ride '12 model C4s and there are a very versatile kite but can't touch the upwind ability to my mates on Edges.
So consider what type of crossing you are doing, broad reach, or down winder.
Re sizes I'm usually on 12m while most of the edge riders are on 9m and weigh 80kg.
Maybe a 10m and 13m in C4 or 9m and 11m in Edge would be good for you???
the first two leg of the crossing very slightly upwind and the last leg is beam reach - so not a down winder at all
I, like a lot of other kiters have owned a lot of different kites but i've never owned any edges so couldn't make the comparison myself i was planning to take the c4 10 as i'm fine with that in the higher end of the predicted wind but i was hoping to avoid having a too big a kite for the lower end of the wind scale so if the edges are more efficient i could purchase one of those
eppo you brought up the subject of board
im fully aware that race boards would increase the wind range . . .
but it has been recommended by the organizers and past participants all used TT's and a majority of previous people used the cabrinah chopstick although others used different twin tips and found it fine
Dusta - I'm not trying to be all secretive . . . . . I'd just prefer not to get specific with the crossing details as it is for a relatively small group (possibly already full) and out of respect for the organizers who themselves have chosen not to promote it on open forums . . . i don't want to cause any problems for them . . . .even if that is just a few unnecessary emails for them to answer
That said . . . . Thanks guys that was what i already suspected and exactly the info i was looking for.
Having thought about it a bit more i might buy two edges to be on the safe side
One final question for you edge owners out there is there much difference between the 2011, 2012 and the 2013 models as there are some deals to be had on some brand new (old stock) edges from various kite shops
The Edge is definitely more powerful than the C4 in the same size. As Plummet says, add about 2m
The flying of the edges is a much more relaxed action compared to the c4, and imo would be the perfect kite for long distances, they really are a smooth kite , however if on a race board or surf board they can get overpowered, I've had the edges since their release the biggest improvment was between 2010 to 2011 , with very little changes between 2012 and 2013, a good edging tt would be my prefered board
i disagree wuth Cauncy's advice saying the edge is relaxing. It most certainly is not a relaxing kite to fly unless underpowered. sure you can park it. but the power and speed it builds is signifant compared to other kites. particularily in gusty conditions it can be a fight to shut the power down or control board speed.
Both c4 and cat are easier kites to fly and get the best out of.
I'd ask is this adventure kiting crossing thing your doing a downwinder? or is it cross wind or upwind?
if its downwinding then the worst kite to get for that will be an edge. your better to go for the lower aspect cat in that instance.
Yeh I'm with cauncy on this but it does depend on what riding style you are talking about. For looping crazy ass dogstyle moves the C4( 2011/2012) plummett would be right.
But lets talk about power delivery. The edge delivers a very smooth controllable power source. I think my brother summed it up when he came in after his first ride on an edge.
He said it was 'farqen effortless'. And consider he was riding north rebels at the time a higher aspect kite and no slouch in the smooth factor. And yet it doesn't even come close. He now rides edges.
As cauncy says with a good edging board, the edge does all the work, the efficient foil builds the power for you, concentrate then on your weight transfer and board, needn't worry about the kite, it is busy taking you as fast as you would like and yet with controllable power.
Also the wing doesn't shoot forward, its not on and off. Hence in gusts unlike most high aspect kites I've flown, it doesn't jag back and forward, it smooths the whole gust factor out. I kite in relatively gusty wind due to the effect of a large estuary on the Seabreeze and wouldn't be on any other kite in this.
For upwind cruising the edge for sure. In the smaller sizes becomes a free ride weapon.
And for the record the new 10m will be the perfect size for this design. The best of both the 9m and 11m...
I agree with Cauncy and Eppo as well - I bought a 9m and 13m Edge about a month ago (thanks to Eppo and others for the reviews) and am loving these kites! The power is so consistent, I find this leads to a very relaxing ride. You do have to edge (sometimes edge hard). Fortunately I am used to edging hard from the old ARX days (where you had to depower by edging). But being a heavier rider (100kg)I would much rather have a kite with plenty of power than one I where I really have to work it to get decent speed up. And the Edge has loads of power.
I also have a lower back problem and have found that this kite works really well for my back, since I can just lean right into the harness instead of standing more upright and working the crap out of the kite. It does lead to a bit more speed over the chop (which is not so good for the back), but the advantages outweigh the disadvantages and my back is a lot better for it!
My previous kite was a slightshot rally, not a bad kite (until the leading edge just popped while I was flying it), but it really needed to be worked to get the most out of it. Edges are powerful and need to be flown carefully in certain situations, but for the most part it leads to a very sit-back-and-enjoy-the-speed ride. Oh - and the jumps are f#$ken awesome.
JUmps are awesome when heli loops chucked in...and dont dismiss them in the waves either...the good rider will make them work......well kind of lol..
well i seem to be in the minority. perhaps its because i'm still on a 2010 egde. maybe the latest models are more mellow?
to be fair if you can edge like a mofo then there is no problem. you then control power output by controlling board speed.
rode my 15m speed 3 today when otheres were on 10's and 12's. now thats like hooking into a freaken train!.
Fun.
Awesome! Don't know only have the 2013 Cauncy says they have changed since 2010. Plus you always ride the edge past the red zone and some! Lol
2010 Edge is nowhere near as refined as the 2012, and the 2013 is smooth as silk in comparison. You simply could not do what the race guys do without the gust munching smoothness that the current Edges have.
I'd go 9 and 13 or 10 and 13
I was out on the 9M C4 2013 tonight, thought I'd try it on the 10M Cat bar (50cm 25M lines, longer depower). Wind was gusty for here, ranging 22-30 I was on a Nobile NHP 2013 1.34 x 42 with 30mm fins at 22 I had to work the kite hard, at 30 I was lit and it was hard to push upwind. This years C4 sits back a bit compared to the Edge, when I pushed hard it went upwind ok, but nothing like an Edge.
For a crossing like that a chopstick would be ok, better would be something with some bottom shape, like the board I rode tonight, also the Cab Custom in the 1.44 size. You need to be able to rest your back leg by switching easily to toeside, much easier to do with a TT in my opinion.
Another board I know that could work well would be the Axis 1.44x46 Patrol, it would be easier on the upwind legs and very comfy on the reach, but I'd recommend 40mm fins max.
The C4 on the 50cm bar with the long depower worked fine, I had the kite on the freeride/light bar pressure setting, think I would have preferred the medium bar pressure setting. The kite works fine on this bar, the bar does not make it like last years kite, and I'd recommend sticking with the 45cm bar on the 9 and down. 50cm on the 10 and up if you are more old school and ride hooked in.
Also this year I'd say there is a 1M difference between the Edge 9M and the C4 9M.
Yep the 10m edge as I've said before would be the ideal free ride size on the fast setting. Then again I just had an awesome session on the 11 this arvo.
Yeh 1m diff I agree until you get on a race board.
I saw you out there tonight on the C4 Steve (I was the one trying to apologise to you for not giving way until the last minute). You were going upwind pretty well on the C4.
Eppo - haven't tried looping the Edge yet, should be ok on the 9m, want to give it a crack on the 13m, but need to htfu first. Do you loop ok on the 11m edge?
No worries, you were definitely not in my way at all. I just get out of other peoples way early, have learned to keep plenty of space around me.
Yeah it goes upwind ok, not like your Edge though, it was seriously hard work to get back to Hollywood where I launched from.
You looked very comfortable on the 13M Edge when I was pretty lit on the 9M C4!!
Don't know if I'd consider going to hard on the 13m! Maybe a gentle down loop or something. The 11m does loop okay on the fast settings. But make sure if kite to the right of the zenith forward loop it and vica versa (with a down loop). Need a bit of speed in the kite to get it around hey. For proper looping don't go there with the edge I want to keep living! The helicopter loop is okay though bit I still hold my breath. You get so high and long and you land so soft I mostly loop just for the farq of it. No need really.
But the 11m is fine in a back roll back loop but ya have to have ya timing right hey. It's not built to loop but it does fine for me. If I wanted to loop I'd be on the C4.
9m can go harder for sure and I still have it middle settings. I shoul change it but keep forgetting. than 9 just has the most enormous wind range. yet to find its top end yet bit winters coming!!!!!
