Now let me make it clear I'm no looping expert hey. Just whack it in here and there to add to the dogstyler motor cross style riding. If I was I'd be on C kites! I'm to old and lame to really push the looping envelope...well maybe to lame, shouldn't blame age hey.
I'm borrowing from Toby really, just recently of kiteforum to, he explained well what to do. Been doing it for years but never really thought about it as much and paid a few painful prices for it to.
Now lets say you are going out to sea in WA on a south wester, left foot forward. You send the kite from say 10 to 1. Lets say you redirect to early and the kite is back over to 11, loop the kite back to the right (downloop, back hand pull). Or if you haven't brought it back cause you are hanging upside down with your tongue hanging out enjoying the view, forward loop it back across the 12( forward, left hand pull). If you do this with enough height you will get a helicopter loop, lower down it becomes a common place down or forward loop. Do it before you reach the summit and it becomes an actual loop...the type I choose not to employ as I'm lame.
Thing is with the edge, doesn't matter which side your kite is on and how far it, redirect hard at the end and you will be that horizontal paraglider landing anyhow. Only when you go real huge and find yourself all out of sorts due to stupid body rotations and board grabs that I need to even consider this. The edge is so forgiving on the landings. I just loop cause why not. I mainly just loop down the line on the waves really to get to certain sections with speed. Or if I'm doing a transition and want to go the other way...
Back roll back loop, get your body slightly rotating when kite reaches 12, before you pull the trigger I find. Remember it is high aspect, it won't pivot loop like a C kite. Their will be some arc in its trajectory.
Practice first with little height, even through your forward hand in the water as a kind of break. But commit, get your back hand at the end of the bar and crank...also do it in one motion...meaning from low down, bring to 12 as you rotate then apply the loop...the edge wants kite speed ( as all kites do) but the edge will loop closer to a pivot the more speed it has. If you stall it and then try and loop and the arc will be greater the power will be greater the consequences could be greater.
Anyhow that's my take on it, someone might have something better and more accurate to add. As I said I'm no expert in this style or any really for riding and only been on the edges for a short time.
But how bloody good are they!!!!
hey rob the minus settings are the lighter pressure, fast turning settings, i have my edges set on this with the middle knot setting under the floats, it gives a much more responsive and connected feel, ozones come with the float setting on the bar set at the 1st knot, ive found changing it to the middle regardless of line stretch on all models of ozones gives it much better feel imo, the old catalyst is transformed on this setting and the rio becomes a much more punchy kite, so where are you in the world at the moment mate
Oh sorry rob forget the bar pressure setting. And cauncy is right on with the settings, exactly as I have them. Should have asked cauncy instead of trying every setting! Although I'm yet to put the 9m on the fast setting just too eager to get out when its blowing more than 22 knots!! That's when the 9m comes alive!!!
For me at 75 pies anyhow. Cauncy probably doesn't even bring his 9m down unless the charts say 25 plus but he's a Farqin animal. Keeping it real, good to see some are still left!
Thanks Mick & Eppo. I should have asked about this long ago. Pretty dumb of me, I thought adjustment for less bar pressure would come with slower looping. Or should I say I didn't really think.
Now I hope to get three big gains with this simple adjustment.
1. I'm trying to ride more one handed to improve my hand drag back roll kite loops, grabs and tantrums. (hooked in). I think that reduced bar pressure will allow me to control kite power and direction more easily when riding with one hand on the bar.
2. I've had kiters elbow in varying degrees over the last 2 years. Occasionally quite sore but mostly just annoying. I changed a few things which have reduced the problem. I'm thinking that reducing bar pressure will also help.
3. Faster turning / loops. Nice!
And Eppo has explained why I occasionally end up getting hauled off my feet as the kite loops through a big unplanned low arc.
One last question:
My 2013 Edges both came standard set up with the Plus / Minus bar pressure attachment on the middle tag. I've now moved it to the minus end as you said.
The steering lines under the floats comes standard connected to the middle knot for 2013 Edges. So I will shorten the steering line by one knot and this will hopefully produce the same improvement you have seen. Correct?
hey rob maybe try it in 2 stages as your already set on the middle knot as tightening up the back lines will open the kite to more wind giving you extra grunt when you sheet in, i generally sit the kite at 12 sheeted out then look how much slack are in the back lines, major drooping back lines give a delayed response, they shouldnt be tight either its a personal preference, for the backroll handplant transition check out tamatoa gillot tahiti on the edges on you tube ,gotta go the wind meter has just kicked off( loose cowl on my chimney)
Christ I didn't even read that before. Sounds like a crazy ass tri to me. You are a nutter man and respect earner. Good luck.just finished watching the Kokoda trail the classic Aussie flick only today...serendipity or what. One farqen up situation and one farqen up track!
I know the edge is not designed to unhook .
we get light onshore winds sometimes .
i think a big edge would be good to get up wind off the beach ,
but how do they go unhooked? can it do it ok ?
size 15m ? my 10m c4 gets me going good in 18 ,
Dafunk what are you calling light winds ? Seen Jason out on his 15m C4 in lightish winds and very light winds on the 15m C4 on a skim unhooking and all. any kite can be unhooked I suppose but the edges designers I don't think had unhook in mind when making the edge and had unhook centered I their minds for the C4.
around 15 knots eppo , i just love the reviews of the edge and in light stuff i still dont like the walk lol and think the edge will upwind better ?
15 knots depending on your weight on a C4 15m and a more efficient board will allow you to be unhooked and throwing down most of what you practise on your 10. The edge at 15m, you'll be mowing the lawn, with some occasional downwind gliding boosts. Unless you want to get into racing?
After 11 I believe the edge loses most if not all its free ride ability.
Now I love the edges, but I would not for my style get anything above an 11m, maybe a 13 at a push.
D
Depends on what you are after...
The 14m cat is a very nice compromise between the edge and the C4 IMO.
Put it this way, the apparent wind build up you experience on the edges becomes far greater in the bigger sizes, as they should cause guys are using them to either cruise fast or race.
And you want to unhook! So add apparent wind and let a big edge sit deeper in the window than it likes. Unless you like landing fast and hard with little vertical pop ability (unless you are an edging machine) a big edge is not the go in my opinion.
But others might disagree.
I did unhook the 11m yesterday just cause, and its fine...kind of, I wouldn't be wanting to try anything beyond a simple S bend. Unhook equals C kite or derivations of. The edge is the furtherest away from a C kite you can get!
I've seen pros unhook on them, but they were on smaller kites and all they day is kite and root each others ego all day, so for us mere mortals I just don't know hey.
65kg im no edging machine , riding luluz 132 .
like the landings
love the apparent wind build up thing .
have an older light wind kite all good but is too hard to go upwind sits deep .
great to hear they can unhook !
ta for the advice eppo
I suppose you can but that's not their design criteria?
Tell ya if you want to be out in 15 knots then go no larger than a 13m edge at 65kg. I'm holding ground on an 11 at 75kg!
Or to be quite honest if you want to compliment your C4 and unhooking etc I'd be seriously looking at a 12 or 14m cat. This way their is unhooking built into its design, it turns much faster and still builds apparent wind much more than the C4, but not as good as the edge. Somewhere in between or if anything more on the edge side of the continuum.
Also if you want to get serious about light wind riding per say, get another board that is more efficient. Tell ya I'm out on the 11m in 10 to 12 knots going upwind on a skim board. Not saying getting a skim but get a bigger board.
Honestly subscribe to having two boards on the beach rather Than two kites.
Yesterday for instance started out real light, was on the 11m and a skim just playing about. Wind picked up so for two hours was on my mako king. Wind kicked up again spent the last hour or so on my 140. Didn't change kite, just the board. Very very useful in winter where I can be changing between two boards three or four times sometimes.
Expands the sweet spot of your kite at a fraction of the cost.
65kg, you lucky bastard!
Both of you are right I find on the edges. The line droop as you call it is very subtle on the edge. There is hardly any at all. This is one thing that suprised me at first. But sheeting is the final stage. I find though these edges can maintain a fair bit of back stall when sheeting in as they still fly forward all the time. on the setting described the old ozone come out of the chicken loop thingy happened fully powered going down a wave two days ago. Was back stalling like anything and yet I still had time to hook back in before it hit the water. I fly the edges with a fair bit of stall allows a comfortable distance when feeling the trim and depower through the kite.
I see merit in both although ultimately Steve is right. Then again cauncy did mention a two stage process so think we are all on the same page really.
I just saw this thread...
to answer an earlier question
2013 is the best edge yet .... ive had every year since they first came to Australian shores. I would say the 2013 is about 20% BETTER ON EVERY FRONT COMPARED TO THE 2012 ... oops caps lock got stuck.... the 2012 was 30% better than the 2011 and the 2010 was not so good.
The edge has alot more power than the C4 size for size and a lot wider wind range and is probibly more purpose built for your crossing.
and finally they all loop awesome right up to the 17m .... just takes Kahonis and faith....lol
and Qlines is the way to go for us real sized riders .... set em and forget em.....
Where ya been rusty!??
Been some good edge talk going on...
What are qlines rusty?
Good to know I got the best one yet...2013 is indeed remarkably smooth and refined but the only one Ive used.
dammit now i need to get a 2013 edge thats going to be at least 50% better than my "not so good" 2010 13m edge!
I should stop reading these damn reviews because I constantly want to upgrade my kites.
Shut up you evil baastaards! Tell me the kites are all crap and my old kites are better than the new ones.
All capex approvals have been cancelled for 2013!!!!
So i took a 13m edge out for a demo yesterday on the river courtesy of westoz .
holy f$ck is all i will say .
Such an awesome kite i'll be replcing my quiver . Now to decide on 8m cat,11 and 15 edge
or 8cat 10m edge and 13edge .
The is some difference between the 2012 and the 2013, but if you put the aramid bridles on your 2012 you'll be very close to 2013 specs, not only my oppinion but also from one of the main men from ozone, the bridles will cost around $150 ,
Hi Eppo
Rotata cuff slowed me down a bit mate.....
Q LInes are (and i copied the hype below) but bacically lines with zero stretch ....
i have been using them for the last 4 years and would never go back to standard lines...
Hype follows... from the kite power web site:....
New Q-PowerLine Pro represents the latest advancement in KiteSurfing line technology from Active People Sports. The latest generation of Q-PowerLine, Pro utilizes a new thinner, stronger Spectra fiber to further improve on the time-proven, superior features of Q-PowerLine.
Pro is now 30% thinner than standard Q-PowerLine for even lower drag, more resistant to stretch with stronger impact strength, a smoother “hand” makes it much more “kink” resistant, and it features a new surface treatment for a slipperier finish allowing more wraps without binding.
The new Pro version still features; 10 times the resistance to tangles, a tight Spectra overbraid to keep out damaging sand particles, a linear core for the lowest stretch possible, much longer life than braided lines, no requirement for sleeving, a round cross-section for lower drag than “thinner” flat braided lines, high-visibility safety coating, and 100% pure spectra construction for floatation.
