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Pulleys

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Created by waveslave > 9 months ago, 28 Dec 2009
waveslave
WA, 4263 posts
28 Dec 2009 7:57AM
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Why do some kites need heaps of pulleys on their bridles but others don't need any at all ??

cwamit
WA, 1194 posts
28 Dec 2009 9:14AM
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yeah seems odd..

fly a jekyll to see how well a bridle kite can fly without pulley wearing parts and one wonders why kites are designed to need them?


undone
WA, 32 posts
28 Dec 2009 10:39AM
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I changed out my pulleys and replaced them with a 12mm Dia thick stainless rings on my helix with no difference to the feel of the kite.
Sure the line still wears out but I have made up short replacement lines that are easly changed out so their is no need to change out the whole bridle.

Manny
WA, 89 posts
28 Dec 2009 12:04PM
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Pulleys are a good idea in theory.But I`ve got a brand new kite and the pulleys don`t work. All it takes is a couple of grains of sand and the pulley jams up. Good idea undone. I`ve had pulleys wear out and the bridle jam up, not a good experience.

jim
WA, 99 posts
28 Dec 2009 12:27PM
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Simple solution ..... Don't buy a bridle kite ..

spw2000
VIC, 77 posts
28 Dec 2009 3:35PM
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waveslave said...

Why do some kites need heaps of pulleys on their bridles but others don't need any at all ??


In theory (and to a certain extent in practice) the pulleys help reduce the bar pressure when the kite is powered up by distributing some of the pressue of the trailing edge lines back to the leading edge lines. Pulleys allow this adjustment to occur naturally.

bennie
ACT, 1258 posts
28 Dec 2009 4:22PM
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Manny said...

Pulleys are a good idea in theory.But I`ve got a brand new kite and the pulleys don`t work. All it takes is a couple of grains of sand and the pulley jams up. Good idea undone. I`ve had pulleys wear out and the bridle jam up, not a good experience.


spray your pulleys with silicone spray($10/can that lasts for a years use) every few months and you will have no problems with your pulleys. even jammed up pulleys will run like new after a good spray with this stuff. I use sailcoat by ronstan

kiter77
VIC, 273 posts
28 Dec 2009 5:30PM
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I put it down to bad R&D. My mate has a GForce and the whole kite only has 2 pulleys on it flys perfectly with very little bar pressure. Compere this to something like a SB, someones done their homework!

Fooosh
WA, 563 posts
28 Dec 2009 3:57PM
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jim said...

Simple solution ..... Don't buy a bridle kite ..


I believe Peter Lynns and Flysurfers have lots of bridles but no pulleys... [}:)]

Andrash
WA, 637 posts
28 Dec 2009 4:21PM
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Fooosh said...


I believe Peter Lynns and Flysurfers have lots of bridles but no pulleys... [}:)]

I believe Waveslave was referring to inflatables.......

tobes
NSW, 1000 posts
28 Dec 2009 7:26PM
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Fooosh said...

jim said...

Simple solution ..... Don't buy a bridle kite ..


I believe Peter Lynns and Flysurfers have lots of bridles but no pulleys... [}:)]


FAIL.

Flysurfers have lots of both.
They even found a way to put 6 pulleys on the new PL's-

I've seen a fair few broken pulleys.
Another reason I like Ozones. Pulleys, who needs em?

Andrash
WA, 637 posts
28 Dec 2009 4:44PM
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I can recall, pullies were a revolution in kiteboarding safety (depower, etc...). they represented a kind of a quantum leap from the 4 liners of the time (let alone 2 liners). The only problem I've found with them is that they wear. If that silicone spray solves the problem, then they are not really a bother...

sir ROWDY
WA, 5378 posts
28 Dec 2009 5:25PM
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2 liners had pulleys.

GalahOnTheBay
NSW, 4188 posts
28 Dec 2009 9:06PM
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sir ROWDY said...

2 liners had pulleys.


lol - rowdy speaks the truth (this time)...

hydra
SA, 254 posts
28 Dec 2009 8:51PM
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pullys are useless. some kites have them for de-power, some for turning some for bar pressure. and yet there are kites like the jekyll, the origin, ozone, which have no pullys and in my opinion perform better.
theres nothing like a direct feel of a kite.

Andrash
WA, 637 posts
28 Dec 2009 6:32PM
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sir ROWDY said...

2 liners had pulleys.


...neither my Co 2....nor my friends Wipikas had any.......10 years ago..........
...unless you convince us otherwise....
....and, of course, if you consider that there was only one line on each end of the kite, what would the pulleys do?....but let the past go, or leave it to the histrorians with some respects to the kiters who did not make it to the time of pulleys....

Skid
QLD, 1499 posts
28 Dec 2009 11:20PM
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Andrash said...

sir ROWDY said...

2 liners had pulleys.


...neither my Co 2....nor my friends Wipikas had any.......10 years ago..........
...unless you convince us otherwise....
....and, of course, if you consider that there was only one line on each end of the kite, what would the pulleys do?....but let the past go, or leave it to the histrorians with some respects to the kiters who did not make it to the time of pulleys....


Have a couple of old RRD CONVs (CONV meant CONVertable from 2 line to 4 line, cutting edge stuff). Bought them second hand and only used as 4 line, but there are pulleys on the LE that were somehow used in the 2 line set up.

GalahOnTheBay
NSW, 4188 posts
29 Dec 2009 1:02AM
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Andrash said...

sir ROWDY said...

2 liners had pulleys.


...neither my Co 2....nor my friends Wipikas had any.......10 years ago..........
...unless you convince us otherwise....
....and, of course, if you consider that there was only one line on each end of the kite, what would the pulleys do?....but let the past go, or leave it to the histrorians with some respects to the kiters who did not make it to the time of pulleys....


No really, the original 2 line c kites had pulleys in a funky cross bridle setup to make them turn.

I can assure you these kites had NO depower apart from what you could make from railing your board harder.

Sheesh kids these days, no respect... lol

cwamit
WA, 1194 posts
28 Dec 2009 10:07PM
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Maybe having consumables on a kite is like cream on the cake for kite brands , not just selling a kite but also having a chance of selling replacement bits for the kite is pretty smart for a company. It's 1.1 of selling and producing anyproduct , assesories or consumables to increase sales and profits as long as it's done with some slick marketing folks buy it up.

kyteryder
NSW, 692 posts
29 Dec 2009 9:58AM
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cwamit said...

Maybe having consumables on a kite is like cream on the cake for kite brands , not just selling a kite but also having a chance of selling replacement bits for the kite is pretty smart for a company. It's 1.1 of selling and producing anyproduct , assesories or consumables to increase sales and profits as long as it's done with some slick marketing folks buy it up.



If a pulley go's wrong, the kite could be pretty dangerous to the use if they are unable to control it. I doubt that kite companies would want a serious injury on their head, to profit from replacement pulleys.
I haven't had a pulley fail on me. Touch wood.

KR

coastflyer
SA, 601 posts
29 Dec 2009 9:53AM
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Simple answer! Buy a North Rebel, never had pulleys or bridles, and they handle great!

cwamit
WA, 1194 posts
29 Dec 2009 8:33AM
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kyteryder said...

cwamit said...

Maybe having consumables on a kite is like cream on the cake for kite brands , not just selling a kite but also having a chance of selling replacement bits for the kite is pretty smart for a company. It's 1.1 of selling and producing anyproduct , assesories or consumables to increase sales and profits as long as it's done with some slick marketing folks buy it up.



If a pulley go's wrong, the kite could be pretty dangerous to the use if they are unable to control it. I doubt that kite companies would want a serious injury on their head, to profit from replacement pulleys.
I haven't had a pulley fail on me. Touch wood.

KR




if someone bought a three year old kite with pulleys and bridles and either failed causing serious injury i don't think it would hold up in a litigation case against the kite brand or for that matter the person that sold the kite. wear and tear is up to the individual to maintain and replace if suspect.


like wearing out a center depower line during a warranty period its not claimable.

Kitehard
WA, 2782 posts
Site Sponsor
29 Dec 2009 9:32AM
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Andrash said...

sir ROWDY said...

2 liners had pulleys.


...neither my Co 2....nor my friends Wipikas had any.......10 years ago..........
...unless you convince us otherwise....
....and, of course, if you consider that there was only one line on each end of the kite, what would the pulleys do?....but let the past go, or leave it to the histrorians with some respects to the kiters who did not make it to the time of pulleys....


Hi Andrash,

Wipika Classic (2-Line) , Freeair (2/4-Line) and also Wipika Airblast (4-Line) all had pulleys way back in the day (1997-2003)

Pulleys aren't a hassle, the first pulleys on the 07 Airush Flow failed due to the larks head arrangement of how they were attached to the cord. This caused misalignment of the line through the pulley and wore out the pulley body and wheel leading to bridle line failure. The '08 model Flow remedied this problem and I haven't seen a pulley fail on any kite since through wear and tear.

It is still wise to check bridle lines and pulleys from time to time and give them a quick spray when necessary.

Honestly, what a lot of hoo haa. Pulleys are fine, there is no need to not buy brand "X" kite due to fear of pulley failure. We sell pulley kites and also non pulley kites, both fly great and we've had no problem with either. Both lots of kite buyers are happy with their respective purchases and have many hours of joy on the water.

Cheers,

KH

hilly
WA, 8145 posts
29 Dec 2009 9:45AM
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^^ What he said ^^

waveslave
WA, 4263 posts
29 Dec 2009 2:33PM
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Kitehard said...
We sell pulley kites and also non pulley kites, both fly great and we've had no problem with either.


Maybe folks misunderstood my question ?
My question wasn't....
"Are pulleys good or evil" ?
My question is...
Why do some bridled kites need to have sh1t loads of pulleys,
while other bridled kites can get away with zero ??
I mean,
if you can build a bridled kite that flys well with zero pulleys...
why would you add superfluous stuff ?

kyteryder
NSW, 692 posts
29 Dec 2009 6:53PM
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cwamit said...

kyteryder said...

cwamit said...

Maybe having consumables on a kite is like cream on the cake for kite brands , not just selling a kite but also having a chance of selling replacement bits for the kite is pretty smart for a company. It's 1.1 of selling and producing anyproduct , assesories or consumables to increase sales and profits as long as it's done with some slick marketing folks buy it up.



If a pulley go's wrong, the kite could be pretty dangerous to the use if they are unable to control it. I doubt that kite companies would want a serious injury on their head, to profit from replacement pulleys.
I haven't had a pulley fail on me. Touch wood.

KR




if someone bought a three year old kite with pulleys and bridles and either failed causing serious injury i don't think it would hold up in a litigation case against the kite brand or for that matter the person that sold the kite. wear and tear is up to the individual to maintain and replace if suspect.


like wearing out a center depower line during a warranty period its not claimable.


Without getting into a bitch fight, I agree. It is the riders responsibilities to ceck wear and tear.
Though my comments where relating to kite companies purposely placing poor design to increase Sales $$$, through providing consumable parts.

kiter77
VIC, 273 posts
29 Dec 2009 7:02PM
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Pulleys are total BS, wear through bridle lines (great for the retailer selling numerous replacements) and if you ever have the misfortune of one breaking which does happen chances are the kite will go into a dangerous spiral. I check my pulleys regularly and the one that broke causing a near fatality looked okey to me, it simply pulled apart. Most pulleys used are not sufficiently strong enough for people kiting regularly in 25-30 knots

Hopefully in the future we can look back at the day bridles were ill designed with numerous pulleys.

enicao
WA, 77 posts
29 Dec 2009 6:40PM
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if you are afraid a pulley might break and put you in deep sh**, you can always build a fail-safe system.

just add a little piece of rope around the pulley, so if the pulley breaks, the rope you added catches the bridle, and the kite keep flying normally until you go back to the beach.

Kitehard
WA, 2782 posts
Site Sponsor
29 Dec 2009 6:52PM
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kiter77 said...

Pulleys are total BS, wear through bridle lines (great for the retailer selling numerous replacements) and if you ever have the misfortune of one breaking which does happen chances are the kite will go into a dangerous spiral. I check my pulleys regularly and the one that broke causing a near fatality looked okey to me, it simply pulled apart. Most pulleys used are not sufficiently strong enough for people kiting regularly in 25-30 knots

Hopefully in the future we can look back at the day bridles were ill designed with numerous pulleys.


Yep, you've figured it out, we're all making a fortune on selling spare pulleys. I myself have sold three in the last 3 years, all in 2008 and I made a grand total of about $8 in profit. Thank god for pulley sales otherwise my business would be down the toilet. <rolls eyes and smacks forehead>

Pulleys enable kites to have maximum depower and a safer safety system with only 4 lines. They also allow shorter sheeting range and suit kites with surf qualities as they pivot turn.

You should perpetuate the urban myths though. Don't forget how 5th line kites get cut in half whenever they invert.

Cheers,

KH

metalmongrel
SA, 118 posts
30 Dec 2009 11:42PM
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undone said...

I changed out my pulleys and replaced them with a 12mm Dia thick stainless rings on my helix with no difference to the feel of the kite.
Sure the line still wears out but I have made up short replacement lines that are easly changed out so their is no need to change out the whole bridle.



I contacted Ronstan about the bridle wear on the 08 Cult and they said Naish had the pulleys tied on incorrectly. The 2010 Helix has them tied on properly ie a single line through the loop on the pulley. I fixed the problem by making replacement bridles out of 4mm spectra and tying the pulleys on as per Ronstans reccomendations. The girl in the tech department I contacted kitesurfs and Ronstan actually sent me the results of testing they had conducted to proove the problem wasn't the pulley but the way it was attached.

metalmongrel
SA, 118 posts
30 Dec 2009 11:50PM
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waveslave said...

Kitehard said...
We sell pulley kites and also non pulley kites, both fly great and we've had no problem with either.


Maybe folks misunderstood my question ?
My question wasn't....
"Are pulleys good or evil" ?
My question is...
Why do some bridled kites need to have sh1t loads of pulleys,
while other bridled kites can get away with zero ??
I mean,
if you can build a bridled kite that flys well with zero pulleys...
why would you add superfluous stuff ?




More blocks can make up for sh!t geometry and design by by changing load points thereby decreasing bar pressure and increasing bar input. I'm surprised (reading another post) that Cabrinha don't have at least 50 on their kites. LOL. I doubt very much its about building in consumables to make a profit. But I could be wrong.



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"Pulleys" started by waveslave