What gives a board good POP.
There are a lot of varying arguments on what boards have good pop, how this is achived, whether you need a lot of rocker, or a flexy or stiff board. There are a lot of variables that seem to come up in other posts that I thought i would bring it up here so everyone can have there say.
My oppinion is that to get good pop on a kite board it needs to have some flex but this flex needs to be controlled across the length of the loard like on the Nobile boards. I allso like a bit more rocker than a regular kite board.IMO
it's clear from recent threads that the biggest factor is brand allegiance.
a factor not mentioned lately is wide stance. there's a good reason why freestyle boards have inserts 5-10 cm further apart than freeride boards.
my current board has the most pop of anything i've ridden. it has moderate stiffness, very flat rocker, a shallow single concave, very wide stance, and quite square tips.
i think my board also works for me because it's bottom shape is efficient, so it can maintain speed easily and doesn't need maxed out kite power to maintain momentum as i load it up.
i'm far from an advanced kiter, and have never wakeboarded, so i'm no expert on the issue. however, i've ridden a few boards recently and have been working hard to get my pop happening more efficiently and it seems to be working.
Have a look at wakeboards, specifically those designed for cable, and you'll see what characteristics are good for pop.
Lots of continuous rocker, stiff, wide, long, wide foot placement.
But you wouldn't want to use a wakeboard behind a kite, kiteboards are always about compromise.
Hi Guys,
Rocker has nothing to do with pop and neither does stance width Stance width gives a squat, wider foundation when landing tricks and gives more control over the board. Rocker in wake boards helps with the approach up the wake and keeping the nose up. Kiteboards need a flat centre or three stage rocker for upwind ability. Wakeboards don't need upwind efficiency so can have a continuous rocker which makes landings easier too. Full on wakeboards are hard to ride upwind and are slow compared to kite wake boards.
Kiteboards are designed to be ridden on their edge ALL the time where wakeboards aren't, they are only on their edge to build speed for the jump for a few seconds. The take off is usually flat. The boat always pulls the board forwards so a flat bottom is unnecessary.
Good pop comes from the materials in construction and the tail shape of the board. The materials in the construction and the way the cloth and type of cloth is laid determines how the board flexes ie soft, stiff, does it absorb the flex or return it.
A wider tail with squared off tips gives more surface area to push off when loading.
Hope this makes it a bit clearer.
Hey Saffer,
It is your right to disagree and i respect that, but if your theory is correct, why do nu skool and Freestyle kiteboards have the least amount of rocker and the most amount of pop?
Cheers,
KH
what are the specially designed cable boards you are talking about? I've never seen a specifcally designed cable board, as far as i'm away people just use normal wakeboards. bindings are another story though...
you can have lots of rocker and **** pop. ride a flexy piece of plywood - can be shaped like a banana but because it flexes so softly you load up and it just flexes more and then when you release it sags back and doesn't hold any energy and actually hampers pop. Pop is all about the ability to load and release. can do it with a stiff board or a flexy board so long as the flex loads to a certain point and then stops (like a good compound curve fishing rod). holds the energy that you put against it and then when you release springs back with force, then you have the benifits of softer tips for ease of ride and may even get a bit of spring out of it.
As Saffer says. Pop comes from being able to stall/stop the board. More you can stall the board when your going flat out, the more pop you'll get.
Everyone is a different height and weight so board dimensions will differ between people. My general rule of thumb for a kiteboard is
board length - what fits under your arm
Width - depends on your weight. Blokes should have 40cm-44cm
tip width - depends if you want the board to be nice in turns or not. Wide tips are a bit of a pig to carve. Under 23cm across the tip doesnt have good ability to plane without power in the kite.
When kiteboarding our board speed is faster than wake boarding. You will get better all round performance with a flatter rocker line. (Upwind, early planning, comfortable top speed.)
If you mix the flatter rocker with the right flex for your weight you'll get a sick board.
Yeh the flex will give you savage rocker/stall when you load the board looking for pop.
see here www.cardboarding.com
its the rider it doesnt matter what your riding if you load right you can pop off the water with almost anything, different designs just make it easier or harder depending on the rider and technique used.
There is a lot of different opinions on cable, wake and kite boards. I supose being a kite board forum there are a lot of people that dont know much about wake or cable. But as far as i can see on cable you need rocker to stop the board to get good pop as the cable doesnt stop, the more tension you build up on the line the bigger you go, Where as on a kite you load up to much it has the oposite affect you just stall the kite at the front of the window.
With kiteboarding there is 2 destinct styles of getting pop, one with a stiff board you get off the edge and then really stomp it quickly allmost stalling the board causing the kite to flys rapidly forwards putting masive tension on the lines an ripping you from the watter doing this causes the kite to generate extra lift increasing the size of your pop. The second method is used more with boards that have some flex where you use board speed then bear off and progressively edge your board in to the wind building tension in the lines and storing energy in the flex of the board while maintaining momentum then releasing the edge resulting in more of a smooth flowing pop that you can use the extra momentum to do tricks and you seem to travel that little bit further. Both methods give good pop but suit different ridding styles and Board types.
The biggest factor is for the ridder to understand the board they are using and use the right tecnique to maximise the pop they get. I prefer the second method as you dont stay young forever and the older you get the more you notice how much stiff boards affect knees,hips,feet etc.
fair enough
i agree, the rocker allows you to put pressure on the water surface in cable by applying the downward force which in return applies an opposited force creating pop, however cable riders still are able to use there egde as well, they just dont get the same tension build up in the springy kite lines, and also have the pull at less of an angle (we cheat simply put). they stomp and egde at the same time which is a completely diff load up to kiting and ive been told by legit cable riders it is off a different foot.
hadlow is a freak and i would say most of the aspects he is training for revolve around the similar rotations under full power ie kite at low angle with a continuos pull.
if he got a better pop out of a rocker in kiting im sure he would use that style of board, however he chooses to use a very flat, wide board for both his straps and boots. even though u could argue its for better landings thats not worth the lack of pop.
some still rip using a rocker in kiting and i would put it down to that being what they ride everyday and i have personally bought a cable board for trips to cwc and kiting but i still believe that a flat board allows you too get way more unhooked height while kiting.
rable rable rable
i think it really comes down to how you load and pop.. kiters and cable riders load very differently and its quite obvious when kiters step up at cable doing double cuts etc (loading like you would behind a kite) and it kills alot of their pop on its own.
if you use a big progressive load up with lots of power on your kite then yes a rockered board works better because you have more control on your speed, you can hold your edge better etc..
if you do the tail stomp quick load kite style pop thing that 99% of riders do then a flatter board seems to work better.
as darren also pointed out most of it comes out of the way the boards constructed and where the flex is n how well it reflexes etc.
as for the boots comment obviously you can hold a bigger edge etc n pop harder than in straps, hence why when in boots i can get a good 5knots more top end out etc. but yer it comes down to what kind of technique you use.
You would also find 3 stage rocker is SH!T for kiteboarding and that is why continuous rocker wakeboards are the choice for wakestyle riders.
saffer is pretty much on the money with everything he has said regarding pop, load up (kiting vs cable) and what boards work better etc
to abesy you will find that saffer is right with the rocker at cable thing regarding pop, kiteboards cant pop for **** compared to wakeboards at cable because they dont hold as strong a edge and you dont have the ability to really tension the line suddenly like you would on a rockered up board. trust me ive ridden both types behind cable and i can safely say i can pop better on a wake.
but that being said it really does come down to the context, ie conditions and how you being pulled. with cable you have a continuous powerful pull and you cant kill the pull so you can lock a rail as hard as you possibly can n go massive, having rocker helps achieve this.
with kiting you have factors such as chop, having to stay upwind, inconsistant pull etc that need to be factored and a mellower rocker helps you keep your speed up during luls and stops you from killing your power by edging to hard.. i used to have this exact problem of edging too much with a cable style cut and killing my kite out before i could pop.
ps only reason you pop bigger then me is because ur kites fishing for cloud trouts 
Anyone can pop high with their kite at lunch, this is kiting not cable or wake you can ride anything.
What's with all this crap about no rocker and flex gives you more pop? it doesn't give you more pop, just a different approach to getting pop. Also say good by to your knees if your getting "massive" pop on your flat boards.
All pop is made from the exact same theory, building line tension and releasing it. If you ride super underpowered all the time with your kite at 11 at the edge of the window on a "high performance kite" a large rocker probably won't work for you. However a flat rocker with tons of flex isn't going to get you any higher than a super stiff board with a fair amount of rocker if you have the right kite and wind.
Really it comes down to how and what you ride, you need the right tools for the job, pick a board that suits your style. If you are a fairy on a high depower upwind machine of a kite choose a flat hook plank, if you ride a real kite get a board with a bit of rocker. Flex is entirely optional, but a bit of flex in the right places will make life a lot easier.
p.s. Almost all kiteboards have a lot of flex everywhere making them sh!t.
I'm going to dare contribute my 2 cents worth...
I think that kiteboards still have lots of designs that they haven't experimented with yet. I like to consider what has got tough unmatched response down to a T and i thought of the bow and arrow. the load on that thing can spring arrows so far you can't even find them - Snowboards have started experimenting with this slightly opposite rocker and then kick up right at the tips and those boards feel kick arse in the parks. No kiteboard I've seen looks like this and i'd love to try something like that out. I think a stiff flex board in this new shape could launch us further than anything else because there would be next to no absorption in the load.
thats an interesting theory but i think the problems with that would be that the shape would not track up wind effectively as you'd need a big kick at the tips to compensate for the reverse rocker to stop nose dives etc, i think that works great when your riding the board flat and popping but being on an edge would make it difficult to control?
duno though im just wondering.
aw yep, good point. I was thinking of the curves being very slight. almost flat but still noticeable, and i think with enough power in the kite you can go up wind on anything... more power!!! 
see what happens i guess
