Keel join crack

Hi all.
Yep, I only pipe in when I've got a question. Hopefully its good enough to generate some chatter.

So, anyone know much about patching keel join cracks?

I'm soon to haul up the boat for antifoul, and that's one of the issues I have to deal with.

The boat's a newish purchase and it was noted by owner and surveyor before the sale. Its on the forward section of the keel, and doesn't leak.

The previous owner used a product called Epirez, which is used for bonding concrete(I think). I was considering using the West System Gflex Epoxy. But time may be too short for glassing.

Anyone dealt with this problem, or know of a product that's quick to prep and apply, strong, flexible and waterproof?
Thanks

There was another member here only a few months back (Jas or Jaz followed by a few numbers) who did a similar sounding repair. He started by asking a few questions here and ended up posting photos of his work. He ground back several layers than built back up. Looked by all accounts a neat job. Hopefully he will stick his head in here and offer some advice.

Its a shame if that's the case Southace. He looked like he was on the right track with it.

Thanks for the feedback. I think I'll use sealant this time round.

I'll take some pics when she's out ... should help with the diagnosis.

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southace said...
Tighten your keel bolts a notch if you get a chance!

Im with Southace on this one. Maybe the keel join crack is more of a symptom than the problem

Yeah but CISCO I have heard many people recommend tightening keel bolts surely that may help if they where loose? I don't Bellevue people that go by the word "expert" I would prefer someone with experience rather than someone that claims they are a expert.

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2loneswordsmen said..
So, is tightening them just a socket set job?

A big one!

I am not an expert, but suspect that Cisco's is correct.

The hull / keel connection includes lead bolted to fibre glass using stainless steel bolts clamping over a sealant and covered in paint. All will react differently to stress, temperature changes, movement so,it is no great surprise that you often see a level of surface cracking at the joint.

I would also go with the sealant, but check the keel bolts if concerned.

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cisco said..

southace said..
Yeah but CISCO I have heard many people recommend tightening keel bolts surely that may help if they where loose? I don't Bellevue people that go by the word "expert" I would prefer someone with experience rather than someone that claims they are a expert.

By all means retighten the keel bolts. By that I mean loosen each nut on the inside one by one, then lubricate the thread and re tension to the recommended torque for that diameter thread.

If when loosening a nut, if the stud turns with it, stop, squirt it with lube and re tension to recommended torque.

Re:- My "expert" fibre glassing mate. He does not call himself an expert. He just is one and that is why most of the trawler owners in Bundy get him to do their cold room and ice box repairs and that is why I take his word as gospel. He knows the game.

If you have studs and the stud turns with it you have a serious problem. Don't simply tighten it up and ignore.
If you have a lead keel the studs will be cast into the keel during manufacture, (usually as a prefabricated cage with hooks on the end of the studs). If the stud rotates then it is likely to be twisting on its way to shearing off with a substantially reduced diameter owing to crevice corrosion.
A cast iron keel will have tapped holes in the CI and bolts not studs.
Alternatively you may have a keel that has an integral flange fitted into a female recess in the hull which may be bolted on with countersunk bolts to the outside (as per Farr 40 keels etc). If you have a keel with a flange and can see cracks at the keel root then enter panic mode cause that keel is about to fall off.
Keel studs can be replaced or at least sistered in the case of lead keels but that is a job for an expert.

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2loneswordsmen said..
I'll check it out before I freak out. its out of the water this weekend.

One thing you have not mentioned I think is what stamp of yacht you have. From your avatar it looks like a Cole 32?? or a Bounty?? or a Carter.

If you say what it is I am sure somebody here will know exactly how it is attached and be able to prescribe what action you should take.

It helps if you add some of that info into your bio/profile.

A good thing to do first, dry the bilge and check keel bolts for leaks. Then when slipping, rest the boat on the keel and watch for water bleeding from the keel joint as the joint is compressed. Towel dry the area around the keel/hull first so there is no guessing. No bleeding of water at the keel joint will tell you that the joint crack is most likely just a cosmetic line. If it is bleeding water you may just need to tighten the keel up, which is best done with the boat sitting with weight on the keel. If water is bleeding, take note of the colour of the water bleeding, is it rusty gunk or clean??, also the smell, dose it smell like styrene if your hull is grp?.
Some keels have a soft sealant gasket compressed in the keel joint, some just have a resin and talc bog mixture to bed the keel to the fiberglass. In either case, if water is getting right into the joint a smear of sealant around the joint crack and a coat of paint is not the fix.

My crack

We used to own a 1986 Nantucket 31 called Flying Colours and she had exactly the same problem. We did a few things to try to solve the problem. First we had additional ribs placed inside to stiffen the hull. This was done while in the water. Then we slipped her and had the keel to hull joint ground out. Sealed with Sikaflex and had the keel bolts tightened. It did not solve it completely but it did dramatically improve it. We found then that she would still leak slightly when really beating to windward in a strong breeze otherwise no problem. The work was done by the shipright at Marmong Point and they suggested we could try removing the keel completely cleaning it up and rebedding but we decided it wasn't that big a problem after the work we had already done.

Thanks all for the feedback. I was too busy working on the boat to reply to posts. I used sikaflex on the crack. 99% sure it doesn't leak ... I'm getting some freshwater in the bilge from the mast. Once I clear that up (anyone used rubberweld boot?), I'll be able monitor the bolts.

Hi Watermark. I've referred to a to a few of your comments on the Cole. They were especially handy when I was buying the boat.

Re the leaks. The boat was pretty dry when I bought it, but over the last couple of months the water has started to find its way into the boat (on several fronts).
I think the mast is leaking internally and externally. Rainwater is running down the wall, but that's a recent event.

Another weekend of maintenance.

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2loneswordsmen said..
Hi Watermark. I've referred to a to a few of your comments on the Cole. They were especially handy when I was buying the boat.

Re the leaks. The boat was pretty dry when I bought it, but over the last couple of months the water has started to find its way into the boat (on several fronts).
I think the mast is leaking internally and externally. Rainwater is running down the wall, but that's a recent event.

Another weekend of maintenance.

If the mast is keel stepped the water may be running down the sail track.