Doug Peterson is one of the most respected yacht designers in the world. I previously owned a Peterson 42, IOR 2 tonner and found it to be an amazing yacht.
I am currently looking for another yacht and for reasons of insurance, budget and manageability I want a yacht that is just under 10m in length.
This one caught my eye when it was first listed around July last year. One would think that if it is any good it should have sold by now.http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=15154619&Silo=Stock&Vertical=Boat&Ridx=0&eapi=2
She is a handsome looking yacht and there is no doubt she would perform.
Has anybody ever owned one of these or sailed one one or have any knowledge and experience of them??
I sailed on one of the Fractional Rig Santana 30s round the cans off Pittwater years ago.
When trimmed in properly it was super competitive with anything of similar vintage. The masthead version sailed the same fleet and was also competitive when sailed properly. The masthead kite was a sight to behold for a 30 footer!
Can't comment on the construction, but nothing fell off the one I sailed.
Cruising - not sure if theres a better option(s).
Racing on a budget - I don't think you would be disappointed.
Enjoy the decision making process.
Cheers
I also raced out of middle harbour on one ,we always flew the masthead kite in all weather . It wasn't my boat I was up front , I only questioned flying the kite once when it was blowing hard , do you want the small one , I was told if your gonna fly one it may as we'll be big . Up it went , what a ride , the owner knew his boat we'll .
It also was competitive nothing broke or fell off , and I can tell you from experience if you broach with the kite up and the top of the mast hits the water the cockpit stays dry lol. It seemed to be a reasonably tough boat from the treatment it got . The owners son used to take it away in the off season so it was cruised as we'll
Now I always thought Gary Mull designed the Santana range including the 30 but it seems I'm wrong, It was Shad Turner. Looking at the pictures it looks like Petersen 30 except the cabin line looks very Santana!
I like it though and I have always thought the best boats are to be found amongst the half tonners, and I'm not biased.
Thanks for the encouraging words from Fiesta and oldboy.
From what you are saying it sounds like they are fairly bullet proof and if you are going to have one a big spinnaker is mandatory.
Ramona, you are right, Santana 30s were designed by Shad Turner but I am sure that is only the American Santana 30s which look very different from this yacht. You must be looking at sailboatdata as I am.
I wasn't satisfied so I looked up their list of Peterson designs and their list is missing many Peterson yachts that are sailing around in Australia. If you look at his Chaser 29 you will see that it is almost identical to this yacht and certainly has the same characteristic cabin top line.
sailboatdata.com/sailboat/chaser-29
The other reference I am lucky enough to have is "The Observer's Book of Sailing Craft Of Aus & NZ". 1979. Fantastic little book!!
You are again correct in that Santanas were designed by Gary Mull but it only lists the 22 and the 28 as being designed by he. The book does not list a Santana 30 but does list a Peterson 30 and from the photo it looks as near as dammit to this yacht. They were built by M B Yachts of Bayswater WA.
I reckon the yacht is a Peterson. They are calling this one a Peterson and it looks identical except for the mast being about 500mm further forward.
www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=11257104&Silo=Stock&Vertical=Boat&Ridx=3&eapi=2
Gary Mull designed a very popular 30 footer too but the name escapes me now. I looked at buying a Petersen 30 a few years ago and in discussions with an owner in Darwin he reckoned they sailed well but were a little tender. Looking at the Santana 30 in your first link the stern and the rear of the cockpit is wider and does not have quite the pinched in stern as the Peterson. So with a mast in a different position and the boat being built by Northshore and what appears to be a different shaped hull I would say we are looking at two different boats. I think the Santana is a Santana!
I may be wrong, and often am if you ask my wife, but from my understanding
Peterson 30 = Santana 30 = northshore 30 ( and northshore 31)
The Peterson 30 was an out & out IOR 1/2 tonner that rated and performed VERY well in it's day.
The others became a little more all rounders and cruisy by different builders. Most likely design re-drawn or altered slightly by other designers.....the north shore stern is very different to fit in a double quarter berth.
This is mostly hearsay, and from years racing against them on the harbour and out of the SASC.
Division 3 CYCA ocean pointscore for many years, there were a couple racing at various times in the mid to late 80's. We could hold them upwind but they would skate away from us down wind, particularly in the light stuff. I was on a Carter 33.
I have seen the one advertised and looks good for the price, but would be concerned about osmosis, and any soft spots in the deck.
Select to expand quoteSupersonic27 said..
We could hold them upwind but they would skate away from us down wind, particularly in the light stuff. I was on a Carter 33.
I have seen the one advertised and looks good for the price, but would be concerned about osmosis, and any soft spots in the deck.
That is impressive against a Carter 33.
You have seen the one advertised "in the flesh" or just the ad??
Just the ad!
A little bit of boat envy!
Bigger, faster and i suspect nicer than my supersonic!
Convert to headsail furling. Mainsail looks like it may need slugs. Make a stackpack/lazy jack set up. Build a windvane and it would be a great single hander. Bonus Buhk that looks like it has received some work. Tiller steering and a good cockpit layout and built by a good builder. No idea why it has not sold.
There is some information in this link from Sailing Anarchy that may help explain the variations in hull shapes of this design.
forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/36288-peterson-santana-30/
Select to expand quoteRamona said..
Convert to headsail furling. Mainsail looks like it may need slugs. Make a stackpack/lazy jack set up. Build a windvane and it would be a great single hander. Bonus Buhk that looks like it has received some work. Tiller steering and a good cockpit layout and built by a good builder. No idea why it has not sold.
If converting to head sail furling it would need to be a top quality unit that allows for rapid sail changing. Not one of those cheap Airlie Beach Reefurl jobs. Had one of those on my Peterson 42 and it was handy while chartering but it would induce terrible forestay sag and gave awful shape to the sail when using it to reef.
I don't mind hanked on foresails.
Full battened main with lazy jacks and stackpack/boom bag would be a must have.
Building a wind vane I am not sure on. If wind vane I was thinking off the shelf Flemming. What would you recommend??
I think I would be quite happy with a Simrad tiller pilot due to their being a totally integrated unit that can accept GPS/wind sensor input. The best feature is auto tack. That would be very handy.
Buhk is good if it is "good". Looks to only be a single cylinder and looks to need a bit more work on it. If the yacht has been primarily used for racing on Lake Macquarie it most likely has low hours from only being used to get on and off the mooring.
If it will easily push the yacht along at 6.5 knots, I would go with it. If not I would look at upgrading to a small 3 cylinder Kubota or Yanmar with heat exchanger and adding a waste heat hot water system. More weight yes but carefully done should not have too much adverse effect. The HWS would be optional.
The cockpit looks great and very workable, everything in reach. It appears there are no runners and I did notice the Fleet Hydraul backstay tensioner ram. Those things are powerful enough to pull the stick right out of the boat.
Why has it not sold?? I am trying to find that out at the moment. I would really like to be able to talk with the owner instead of the broker.
Thanks for the link but there is still nothing absolutely definitive on it but I am going with Peterson 30. That gives me another emotional justification to buy it if it is any good.
Select to expand quoteSupersonic27 said..
Just the ad!
A little bit of boat envy!
Bigger, faster and i suspect nicer than my supersonic!
I know all about "envy". I had a Peterson 42 called "ENVY II". She was magic but I became very envious of the guy that bought it from me and was able to make a commercial success of it.
Let's not get too emotional yet. I have nowhere near enough information yet to be making any decisions on it.
If I do end up buying it I will be looking for someone local like yourself with some offshore experience for some shakedown sailing trials and possible delivery assistance. If that is a possibility for you keep it in mind. Cheers.
I'm moored 50m away from Heaven Can Wait, so Cisco, if you'd like more pics or any info, I'm definitely no expert, but I may be able to help.
I've never seen the boat move or anyone near it & I'm at my boat a fair bit!!
Select to expand quotecisco said..Supersonic27 said..
Just the ad!
A little bit of boat envy!
Bigger, faster and i suspect nicer than my supersonic!
I know all about "envy". I had a Peterson 42 called "ENVY II". She was magic but I became very envious of the guy that bought it from me and was able to make a commercial success of it.
Let's not get too emotional yet. I have nowhere near enough information yet to be making any decisions on it.
If I do end up buying it I will be looking for someone local like yourself with some offshore experience for some shakedown sailing trials and possible delivery assistance. If that is a possibility for you keep it in mind. Cheers.
I would be happy to help with the delivery! Jus need to know the boat can do it!
Select to expand quoteLazzarae said..
I'm moored 50m away from Heaven Can Wait, so Cisco, if you'd like more pics or any info, I'm definitely no expert, but I may be able to help.
I've never seen the boat move or anyone near it & I'm at my boat a fair bit!!
Thanks for that Lazzarae. Knowing that could be good or it could be bad,ie negotiating power or the bird poo is one inch thick. It certainly means the engine will need to be properly recommissioned.
Don't make a special trip of it but if you could get a good photo or two showing the whole mast and rig I will really appreciate it.
So how long have you been going to your boat and not seen any activity with Heaven Can Wait? One year, two years??
Damn. This Seabreeze certainly is the online grapevine in Australia.
Why can't you pick an ordinary Defiance like normal people. The newer one is way overpriced and has all sorts of anti sailing stuff hanging up everywhere and has a saildrive. The old one is more interesting and I would like some history, may even be Jack Savages old boat. His was a similar configuration. I would look for a Savage built Defiance from the eighties.
I still like the Santana, has good bones.
Defiance or Peterson?
Both good designs.
I believe the Peterson was a bit later and would perform a bit better.
The one with the newish engine might be worth a good look, but I suppose if you factor in the transport, that is a significant extra cost
Because I am probably not normal I suppose. Don't forget I was MOBI (Most Objectionable Bastard Imaginable for the civilians).
The first Defiance at Coffs is not a Savage. It was from a builder up the North coast somewhere and has a lot more fibreglass furniture than the older boats. Its been for sale for a long time, I can remember when the asking price was 65 thousand! Has a twin spreader mast and good gear but wheel steering. Second one looks like a Savage, you will have to chase up when they sold the moulds on.
Bought windvane like a Fleming is going to cost $4000 new. The Santana might need that prop cleaned before sailing back to Qld. Looks like it can be cleaned just snorkeling though. New windvane would be a bit of over capitalization on the Santana. I would be buying the Santana and sailing it home. I used to use a piece of rope tied to the tiller on the weather side to sail my boat till I built the vane. Clove hitch on the tiller with enough tension to hold the slight weather helm and she would sail straight all day. Looking at the pictures I would say the Santana is in about the same condition as my boat cosmetically. I have more sailing stuff but that's what you get buying a serious racing yacht, they may be a bit tired but all the gear is top shelf stuff. It all boils down to what your after in a boat.
Do you need a glossy topside? I bought an electrical head a few months ago and have not installed it yet. Owned the boat more than 3 years, still have not used the heads! I don't need perfectly varnished furniture.
The Petersen "Blue Eagle" is tempting too, shame about the wheel steering but it does have a Volvo. Certainly has marina presence and I don't think Syd would buy a dud.
Select to expand quoteLazzarae said..
I've only been here since July last year.
I took these this morning:
Cheers Larry
Thanks so much for doing that Larry.
The rig looks to be fairly moderate being single spreader and mast head. Nothing too complicated and not too expensive to replace.
I am getting a feel for this yacht now. Cheers and thanks again.
I like the style of the Santana more than the Defiance Ramona so I will pursue this one further. It has the basics and there is not a lot I would be adding to it. Lazys and boom bag, folding bimini top, EvaKool fridge with dedicated solar and battery, GPS and that would about be it for me.
The prop looks to have it's very own eco system.
The Santana 30 is definitely a Peterson design. In the UK it was known as the Contention 30. Shad Turner designed the US Santana 30 but there was no relationship between the companies apart from the fact that the Oz company had brought out the Gary Mull designed 22 and 27 (which was extended into the 28 here). The only Santana Shad Turner design built out here was the Crossfire 20, which was a copy of the very popular Santana 20 built by an unrelated company which collapsed after a mysterious fire.
The boats normally sold in Oz as a "Peterson 30" are either NZ Cavalier 30s (designed by Peterson) or WA builds, also (not surprisingly) designed by Peterson. They are in the style of the Chaser 29/North Star, which won the world 1/2 ton titles in 75 and 74 respectively. In dimensions and style such boats are very similar to the Holland 30 although the Petersons sold here had larger cabin tops.
The Santana 30 is a newer boat that came out around '78 with the wider stern that Peterson brought to light with his Dida/Yena 2 tonners in the Sardinia Cup of 1978, which were of course similar to the Envy/Marloo types. Reports of the time (and my own memory as a kid who started racing offshore around this time at 17) indicate that the '78 vintage was faster downwind in the light and moderate stuff than the old narrow-stern designs.....cue memories of trying to get downwind in various pintail Kaufman and Peterson designs!
Australian Sailing indicates that the first Santana 30 was on Lake Mac; I think she was called Austral but that name went to a Davo 36. I raced my half against her once; I think she was a competently sailed masthead version which fits in with my recollection of reports. She got my '68 half on the beat to the finish after 45 miles (as she should!) IIRC and beat most of the half tonners home. I seem to recall her being owned by a Tim Mayo of RMYC Toronto but I'm not sure if she is the boat pictured; her windows looked more like one piece ones but that is unreliable as it relies on perspex tinting.
The Santana 30s rated faster under IOR and JOG than the older Peterson and Holland designs, and of course higher than S&S 30s/Currawongs/East Coasts although there was only a few percent in it. Some were soon fitted with an optional fractional rig and probably went even quicker although I recall that in JOG nationals even good boats (as I assume the Wilmot's Vayu was) were beaten by top Farr half tonners like Springloaded. A custom Peterson of similar design, England's Green Dragon, was one of the best in the world for a couple of years in the '70s, able to beat anything her type at times.
Nice boats. If well sailed, able to beat just about any half designed before the '80s, IMHO.
Thanks Chris, nice write up. Cisco will have to get his boney butt down there and buy it now before there is a rush.
Thanks also Chris. I was fairly sure the Santana 30s are Petersons.
Don't go trying to panic me into buying this yacht Ramona. I am just going to check the car today to make sure it is ready for the trip down there.
Nice looking unit. What a great service Larry provides, amazing group of people in this forum.
I think you are right to be wary of the saildrive.
Strange set up on the lifelines.
Why drop out the midwire in the section back to the cockpit?
Those stanchion bases will need to have a rod gusset to sustain more than your regulation size 65kg bowman holding onto them.
Select to expand quoteFiesta said..
Why drop out the midwire in the section back to the cockpit?
Those stanchion bases will need to have a rod gusset to sustain more than your regulation size 65kg bowman holding onto them.
I thought the same thing.
Some of the stanchions have had a bit of a hard life but no real dramas & could be straightened & strengthened.
Also some of the running rigging is getting on a bit as well - some is new tho.
The windows are a bit crazed too.
The crazed windows add privacy!
The Pelican hook release on the lower life lines is to let people board easier. I have a similar setup on both lifelines but with wire clamps so the tension is only partially released between the forward stanchions. My dog can climb onboard and disembark with the lower line released.
More modern boats such as the Farr 1020 (for example) are selling for what the half tonners were not all that long ago: http://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/farr-1020/110745
A design such as the Farr 1020 isn't compromised as are IOR boats with their big bulges amidships and crazy pinched sterns to fit in with the handicap rules of the day. IOR boats don't perform downwind. A Farr 1020 will plane and surf downwind, leaving the old IOR boat in its wake, and with a nice fractional rig
