Don't know about cats, but I was onboard a monohull last Friday in around 10 knots windspeed, and was absolutely blown away at how high it could point. Crazy, insane, ridiculous angles!!!
I take it multihulls are worse?
Anyway it impressed me, only having sailed windsurfers before 
Hey I was thinking....do you reckon a sailboard would beat these boats racing? (just stirring )
that's right matthew,
for me off the wind on formula kit with an 8.5 i was comfortable hitting 28 knot peaks.
the pro guys are peaking around 35 knots and averaging 32-33 knots off the wind on 11m sails in 18-20 knots.
Hi people, first post here
found these quotes at http://www.alinghi.com/en/news/features/index.php?idIndex=227&idContent=21769
'Butterworth noted that Alinghi 5 is fully loaded in 7 knots of wind. For reference, a V5 sloop was fully loaded in 11 knots of wind. Upwind Alinghi 5 can sail between 35 and 55 degrees true wind angle, which brings the apparent wind angle under 20 degrees, and the sheeting angle for the headsail can be 5 degrees. Upwind boatspeed is generally between 16 and 20 knots.'
"We had one of the sailing team guys out the other day, Will McCarthy, and we were trying to do the reach, which is the most difficult angle for these boats because they accelerate and accelerate," Butterworth says. "Will's sitting on the back and we're doing 36 knots and everyone's talking about the bow and the sails. And he's saying, 'Jesus Christ! Is this right?'"
hi paperplane,
i followed your link, some great information there. going off the alinghi official website and their figures i reckon formula is back in the equation.
although they say their angles are high and what looks to be higher than a formula board they almost can't tack. they would need a different layline than formula which is much more nimble. and they aren't exceeding 20 knots upwind. actually their boat speed is very similar to a formula board upwind.
downwind, again, similar boat speed to a formula setup, will be interesting to see the gybes. 
We used to get some pretty good FW guys out pacing with us on some of the days we were racing the cats. They weren't as quick as the top F16s, F18s, Tornadoes and A Class around the course even when they were well powered up, and we know from the annual race in San Fran that even downwind the FW boards are little if at all quicker than an 18 Foot Skiff. The FW guys from Botany Bay also reckon that the Moths are regularly as quick or quicker than the boards, which would also (after cross-referencing the classes) confirm that the FW gear is about as quick as an A Class cat in planing winds. Which is hugely impressive given the size of the board, but still nothing like as fast as the big multis.
Given the way the VX40 cat beats the Tornado and the rest of the small cats and the 18 Foot Skiff, and the way the 40' Euro lake multis wipe Skiffs and Tornadoes, it's hard to see how the big multis wouldn't wipe any board around a course, until it gets too strong for the big boats to sail.
Remember that old clip of an ORMA 60 tri being paced by a board in strong winds? It looked impressive, until you noted that the tri was just loafing along, compared to what it could do. And that was in good winds for the board, against a tri that's much slower than the AC boats.
About "The StarBoard Serenity can do 3x windspeed apparently (see: www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=20401 ...I couldn't find another reference.)"
Having sailed a Serenity a couple of times, and spent a lot of time on a Lechner and other D2 boards (which were very similar in light stuff but much quicker in a breeze as far as I can judge), I really can't see the Serenity or Lechner coming close in any conditions (apart from when it's too windy for the big boats to venture out, or if the board can pump in winds that are dead calm all the way up those 200' rigs).
There seems to be a lot of hype about the Serenity's speed. There was, for example, a Youtube clip allegedly showing the Serenity beating a bunch of racing dinghies. The interesting point was that since they said what club it was at, you could just go to the results and look them up and notice that the Serenity was normally beaten by 13' singlehanded dinghies - which was pretty much what the vid showed a lot of the time.
It's a great board in very light stuff, but up against boats it would be nothing amazing.
hi chris the san fran race is a classic. has even been won by a kite at one point.
the bt extreme 40 i think was head and head with windsurfers, but that was in 30 knots.
2.bp.blogspot.com/_83C0d9qWNoU/SJRjW3m4KDI/AAAAAAAAAVE/Y72_Oj2ks4Q/s1600/34926
i found some vids of windsurfers against big boats.
You're kidding!!!
The video of trimaran vs formula - if you look at the tri you will notice its mainsail is reefed! Now was this because it was windy, or to slow down? It doesn't look that windy in the vid, and other snap shots of a windsurfer sailing beside a boat does not mean we are quicker around a course. It just looks good.
Oh for outright speed Hydroptere has done recorded a 50.17 Nautical mile, beating Dunkerbeck's best of 41.14. I would assume hydroptere did its speed in open water (wind speed was 30kts) How many formula sailors are going to do 50 kt NM in 30kts wind in open water
Gestalt can you - I know as sure as hell i can't, but i sail a lot more than i post.
I think I am going to copy the sail graphics off the Extreme 40 for next years Ka range, lovely Maybe we could do a range of purple wetsuits as well.
Justin, Sorry mate but there is no way a Formula is going to get close to one of those beasts unless it is 25 knots and their wing mast is in 50 pieces. The VMG on those things is amazing.
I am a Formula hack but can't get near AMAC on his Moth unless it is 20 knots and thats a 12 ft foiler, these things are 90 ft plus!!! He goes the same speed upwind and 10 degrees higher, downwind I am faster but not enough to make up the deficit.
that's great Dam,
now if you look back a few pages you will see that it was proven the vmg's of the cup boats are a LOT higher than a formula, i thought that had been put to bed.
as for the vids,
they are awesome, watching the windsurfer sail along beside the big boats is impressive.
no arguemnt about outright speed, the whole hyperthetical was about course racing, hydroptere may be quick in a straight line but again what does that prove, can it sail upwind?
and at what point did i say i could beat hydroptere over a nautical mile? i can fell some words being put in my mouth there. actually, don't recall ever mentioning hydro.....
personally i think this thread has become more about cronyism than hypotheses.
yep i understand and agree.
Maybe we could do a range of purple wetsuits as well.
Looks like we're going to have a start, about 20 minutes time. It's about to get real!!
20 knots upwind and 24 knots downwind in 6 - 8 knots.....the question has been answered, NOTHING will keep up with these things
They are amazingly efficient in light breeze. I think one of the commentators mentioned 15kts VMG in 7kts of breeze. You could let go of a balloon at the top of the course and they would be able to sail up the course and back to the start in the same time it took the balloon to float down the course.
Fingers crossed we get to see how they go in 15kts of breeze.
lol, nope no formula boards on the course, even the support crew had the throttle down.
i watched the coverage too. at one point the commentator said bor was doing 30 knots off the wind. they were so gracefull to watch. but i have to say i think the comentator may have been throwing figures off the top of his head.
now, without upsetting all of the "anti" formula crew.
does anyone have any real data about boat speed from the race. yes they were flying but i'm keen to see some data. i had a look around online but couldn't find anything.
what is being said here is that bor was doing 3x the wind speed to windward, is that correct?
Nebian and Crazyjockey. Think you might be missing the point. It is definately possible for a sailing craft to exceed wind speed. I reckon that I can easily double the windspeed in 12 knots by hitting 25 knots. Its a question of extracting energy from the windstream. Some craft can extract the energy using windmills to drive a propellor and travel directly against the wind, other wheeled devices may be able to extract energy from the windsteam while travelling directly downwind at greater than the windspeed. A "boat" with "conventional" sails however cannot travel directly to windward and cannot extract energy from the windstream at a VMG downwind greater than windspeed.
We had a good look at the device Nebbian's resurrected a while ago. A few of us had to change our minds and agree that it's not a hoax.
It works on the same fundamentals as a yacht, ie the blades of the propellor are reaching down wind at the angle a sail might do. The gearing and wheels allow the rest of it to go directly downwind. Same VMG for the propellor tips and the chassis, both faster than a balloon.
all i see is the world fasters 90ft cat and the world fastest 90 tri .. i dont know much about the history but shouldnt it be able country v country sailers v sailers .. ****s ridiculouse .. .. change is good but wouldnt 2 canting keeling wingmasted 90ft speed monos be better .. when i wasted the start i missed the normal start procedure how they would play with each other in true match racing spirit .. and if the world ran my way..
