After reading a fair bit about both disciplines, I'm looking for practical advice in which discipline to lean towards, I'm currently organising intro sessions on both.
What my main questions are cost vs flying time.
Greater flying hours, practicality vs stoke.
I often see guys para motoring next to my house and it looks good but slow!
And I remember Mr No-Ones motorized hang glider over Rockingham video and thought that looks brilliant.
So what would give me greater chance of getting in the air localy?
Cost vs flying time is pretty much similar for both.
Flying time will be limited by weather and your availability, but the conditions to paraglide are (for all intents) the same as to hangglide. You will share the air with them quite often
You will find paragliders get a better climb rate and glide ratio (meaning you can stay up for longer in less) but you have already expressed your displeasure at the consiquence of that (speed)
G'day Daylight,
As the wolf said, cost is about the same, I will try and be unbiased but it's not easy
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I went through the same dilemma before I started and made a list of pros and cons for each. They both received equal scores, PG are very practical to transport but HG give the highest stoke. HG is easier to launch, PG easier to land. PG average a better climb rate where Hg has a much better glide ratio, one of mine is 15:1. Yesterday we were launching HGs at Gero in 20 minimum to 32kt gusts but can launch in 0 wind as well, because they have a solid frame they are more stable so are better in rough air, PGs are reaching their limit on launch at around 15 knots and need a few knots to inflate their wing. PGs still seem to clock up as many hours because they are so easy to relaunch and try again.
When it comes to powered Hg we need a longer field so PPG has a big advantage on available sites but tend to fly low and slow in calm air. I regularly run mine for just long enough to find a thermal then turn it off and climb to cloud base, if there's no lift then just cruise at half throttle.
Suppose you have to decide if you have the room for HG and if you prefer performance over convenience. There are a lot more active PPG pilots in WA with the Sky Pirates Club and all are great blokes both sides of the fence. Too many reasons to list one over the other, I like flying high and far, others like the social aspect and to be seen, either way they are both great sports.
Seems to be plenty of PPG's coming up to Lancelin in small groups this summer, not sure how far up the coast they are coming from, have they got the range to get up here from Perth? Looks like fun but noisy as hell.
Thanks for the replies The wolf and Mr No-One.
The convenience of the PG does seam appealing, however I haven't seen the HG set up with regards to transportation to see how easy/difficult it would be.
Thanks for the unbiased critique Mr No One i'm still very much undecided!
The main priority is the stoke factor, also I was hoping for a light wind sport that I could partake when i'm not on the water so anything less than 18 knots would be perfect.
How often do you land a far distance from take off unplanned? are these considerations that should be taken in to account.
Thanks again for the response guys.
Both are great but I'd disagree with the stoke factor applying to HG above PG. HG has almost died out in Europe because PG is so convenient, can be carried up mountains, landed on a postage stamp and can do a lot more aerobatics (do a YouTube search on paragliding acro).
For some local fun at North Beach watch this
No matter which form of flying you go for, you have to commit to it to be any good. It is a lifestyle choice, not a hobby you do on the weekend when the weather is nice.
It costs at least $100 an hour to fly. The gear needs to be replaced fairly frequently and the amount of time and effort put in is considerable. HG can be refurbished (new sail, new parts). PG have to be thrown away when they wear out.
Both kinds of wings become obsolete before they wear out. This may be more true of PG than HG. PG are going through a massive development surge at the moment.
Personally I prefer PG and have done for more than 20 years. You can lob off smaller sites and fly in more marginal light conditions. Wanging around on a mini-paraglider at a coastal dune in strongish winds is the flying equivalent of motocross riding. Serious Yeehar!!! stuff.
HG can handle stronger winds but are more of a pain to pack up and set up and transport.
If I was in WA I might look at HG towing. You could clock up some serious kms somewhere nice and flat.
I definitely agree flying is not a casual sport, factor in a few years to get to a good level. I don't agree on the cost though, A PG will last 500 hours, at a maximum cost of 5K for a brand new glider (more like 3.5-4K right now with exchange rate) that's more like $10 per hour and much less for HG.
Doesn't matter what you fly though, it's hard to beat the feeling with anything else :)
Regarding the glider development, PPG gliders now do 60-70km/h so you can definitely go places and they dont feel slow when you're a few feet off the deck! If you want to fly further get a Trike (Hangglider with seat(s) and motor) but you'll also need an airstrip.
Too true Gorgo, I was trying to put a positive spin on it Should also mention it takes over your life and is really bad for parenting and relationships....
... fees to test and repack your reserve every once in a while.
... expensive "dental-floss" lines to reduce parasitic drag and make your "wing" 0.1% faster.
... late$t and greate$t vario and "thermal vision goggles" :)
... OT fees to fix your ankle that got hammered during the time your PG did that weird front-tuck seconds before landing.
... psychologist fees to fix the bad dreams you've had ever since you saw your buddy get into PIOs on take-off with a brand-new HG and break his back.
It's a great sport - been involved since the nineties myself, but the body count has been rather high. Not sure it's suitable for parents... Also, as you get more experienced and cautious, it degenerates into "paradriving" - you drive to a site, but the wind is not exactly 100%, so you end up not flying...
Gorgo, why 2 radios? A single Yaesu VX-3R does it all, including the AM gen. aviation bands.
It's a great sport - been involved since the nineties myself, but the body count has been rather high. Not sure it's suitable for parents...
Bit concerned about this! as an about to be first time Dad.
Im sure giving the correct training, sensible judgments and fully paid up membership to the self preservation society it will be as safe as you make it!
Please remember that I have no experience to back that statement up im just putting it out there....
"maybe a 4th kit because "Dear the old glider is really old and the new ones are soooo much safer and you do want me to be safe don't you?"
The wife asked why I was laughing, I read this and have used that excuse many times over to justify new Kite purchases.
Im enjoying the youtube vids they both look life absorbing persuits!
It's as safe as you want to make it. 99% of accidents are because of poor judgement (desperation to fly even when it's not on). The problem is it takes time to build that judgement but there is a good community that will see you right if you choose to listen and do your own research to back everything up. My wife flew until she was 6 months pregnant and then chose to stop. I occasionally fly the product of that pregnantcy ( now 8) on tandem but the conditions have to be better than good and with no other pilots sharing my bit of sky (that's the bit I can't control, the rest I'm very confidant about). For a comparison I found learning to kitesurf far more dangerous than paragliding but that was when the de-power wasn't what it is now, likewise paragliders are also safer than when I learnt (mid 90's).
Hi Gradient,
Your vid is very good, how long did it take you to get to that level of skill?, and what were the conditions that day? i didn't see any white caps in the ocean.
Do you think a kiting background would be helpful to PG? with regards to the learning curve.
Also the other thing that i would be interested in would be long coastal flights like the one Mr No-one described.
what sort of range is possible with PG (powered)
Hi Daylight.
I've been flying since the mid 90's, that site is not one I reccomend to many as there are just too many hazards therefore the conditions have to be spot on and the pilot really needs to know his wing. There are however some very nice dune sites that are similar without the proximity of road and powerlines, if you check out the dunes North of Minadrie on a day where there are Westerly winds 10-15kts you will find plenty of paragliders there having a blast (or Burns Beach of it's SW).
The range of PPG varies, if you want to return to your car it's a lot less than if you're flying downwind on a strongish day where your groundspeed could be over 100km/h. Guys regulary fly from Burns Beach to Lancellin or Point Peron to Mandurah.
I plan to fly sor, When I get my ticket!
The long distance trips appeal.
I am leaning towards pg and there is a launch very close to my house!
Do you know if the pg course is conducted nearer metro Perth at any point or is it just Albany/Gero.
Unfortunately you are limited to one school which teaches where you mentioned. Google Lee Scott, he's based over east but also runs courses in Bali where you'll get a lot of airtime. Also check out the sky pirates forum for PPG in Perth.
I've got a complete Airwave Sport 3 L (~90kg) package (harness, reserve, vario) for sale if anyone's interested.
(www.northern-paragliding.com/product-reviews/first-impressions-airwave-sport-3-3.html)
50hrs air time.
Purchased in 2006, and has been in the garage since 2007, except for 1 flight in 2010 and another 2 flights in Feb/Mar 2012.
- coastal air - smooth carpet.
) - would train the uni club - early basic training days when we couldn't book a bus would go along local sea wall / slope on beach - when we finished on a number of occasions would have the Mars bar challenge. Doing just that seated on a Hiway Harrier with huge training wheels (35 cms)- running on top of bushes anything to avoid landing out - & shelling for a Mars bar
I have been going through this conversation for months with a guy at work. I'm not rude enough to tell him to forget it. He would be crap at flying.
If you want to fly then find a school, have some lessons and just do it.
If you are kitesurfing successfully (or windsurfing or surfing or whatever) then you'll be fine at flying. Not because the skills are similar, but because you have the personal resources to dig in an make it work.
If you're crap at kitesurfing then don't bother with flying. You'll probably be crap at it and get hurt or waste your money.
Go for the hg or pg based on your instincts. If you have trouble deciding then take a two day introductory lesson or a tandem and see which one appeals to you.
Gorgo, thanks for the advice, I'm now booked on my EP course in northumberland uk as I'm there on holiday and will aim to progress to cp when I get back to Perth and accrue more leave.
Mr no one thanks again for your input, I'm now in contact with one of the pilots down there so hopefully will meet the crew soonish.
From what I've read and watched ground handling is something that I should invest an awfull lot of time in. This is because you can simulate difficult situations on the deck.
I'm really looking forward to it!
Hopefully I will develop the skills needed
The cutting edge in PG acro. Yeeeeeha :)
What is going to happen when your motor suddenly stop ?
Could you still fly and land safely ?
www.theage.com.au/national/queensland/dead-paraglider-was-novice-20130415-2hvb1.html
Sad incident, it seams ppg has an excellent saftey record in Australia up to now.
Thoughts to the family
Although tragic, this has to be put down to pilot error or freak turbulence, not the motors fault.
When the motor stops it just becomes a slightly heavier then normal glider, doesn't mean they are going to drop out of the sky. When flying a PG or HG powered or not you always assume you may have an unplanned forced landing so fly with enough height and landing options to set yourself up for a safe one. While flying you look for a landing area in easy reach just in case, then the next one and the next as you travel along, the higher you are, the more options you have. I'm usually at 3000>6000ft on the powered HG, at 10:1 that gives me up to 20km to land. A few weeks ago we had some moron on a PPG fly 300ft over our ship yard at Henderson just to show off in front of an audience, if his engine stopped he would have been screwed with no landing areas, also it is highly illegal to fly that low over a built up area.
Fly safe and be prepared for the worst and you'll be right. I bought my first HG back in 1988 but didn't get serious until 5 years ago and am VP of HGAWA with no injuries even though I've had a few dodgy landings.
