of which the town is more reliant than ever with the demise of the fishing industry.
Further to my comments as to what constitues "kite surfing activities" for the purposes of the Regulations, it also appears the Council does not have the power to regulate kitesurfing.
According to http://www.gingin.wa.gov.au/Documents/KITE%20SURFING%20DETERMINATION.pdf the Shire of Gingin Local Government Propery Local Law 2004 allows for defined activities to be regulated.
Clause 2.1(1)(b) states the Council may make a determination prohibiting activities referred to in clause 2.8. Clause 2.8 does not specifically refer to kitesurfing, or even a class of activities that would include kitesurfing. Clause 2.8 is set out below:
2.8 (1) A determination may provide that a person is prohibited from pursuing all
or any of the following activities on specified local government property -
(a) smoking on premises;
(b) riding a bicycle, a skateboard, roller-blades, a sand-board or a
similar device;
(c) taking, riding or driving a vehicle on the property or a particular class
of vehicle;
(d) riding or driving a vehicle of a particular class or any vehicle above a
specified speed;
(e) taking or using a boat, or a particular class of boat;
(f) the playing or practice of -
(i) golf, archery, pistol shooting or rifle shooting; or
(ii) a similar activity, specified in the determination, involving the
use of a projectile which, in the opinion of the local government
may cause injury or damage to a person or property;
(g) the playing or practice of any ball game which may cause detriment
to the property or any fauna on the property; and
(h) the traversing of sand dunes or land which in the opinion of the local
government has environmental value warranting such protection,
either absolutely or except by paths provided for that purpose
It would appear the Council is dreaming!
I also note reference was made to complaints against the behaviour of a "belligerent" permit holder in the area, but there was no discussion about withdrawing his license.
Councillor Maley appears to be the person driving the regulations and his email address is Email: [email protected].
Please, please, only email if you are actually a stakeholder and have genuine concerns. Please, please, please, send constructive emails designed to help the situation. Abusive emails will only inflame it.
I make no representations as to whether or not you should email Councillor Maley, and I only provide his email address as it is publicly available on:
www.gingin.wa.gov.au/
DISCLAIMER
Again, this is simply a post on an internet forum and should not be relied on by any person without first obtaining their own legal advice.
Select to expand quoteSaffer said..What about enforcing the council to put a decent road in for access. Its a tad unfair if kiters require a 4x4 to ride and windsurfers don't.
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[
Saffer, the Council isn't about to spend hard earned dollars for a (in the councils eyes) minority group, building a special road to accommodate same.
I can understand your annoyance and frustration, but its all about Council responsibility to the majority of its stakeholders (local business and residence) and any potential cost exposure being reduced to as little impact as possible.
Regardless of what the legal standpoint is, any attempt to call them on any point of law, will have a barrage of legal wrangling being turned loose, so in the end you wont be able to see the wood work from the trees.
The only way around the issue is meaningful discussions between interested bodies (WAKSA and Council). This takes time, and massive amounts of patience
From:http://www.gingin.wa.gov.au/om/om20090407_minutes/indexam7238.htm
"11.4.1 REVOCATION OF TRADING IN PUBLIC PLACES PERMIT - WINDSURFING
LOCATION:
GRACE DARLING PARK, LANCELIN
FILE:
RES/12
AUTHOR:
WAYNE HARRIS - PRINCIPAL ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH OFFICER
REPORT DATE:
31 MARCH 2009
A PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL MEMORANDUM WAS CIRCULATED TO ALL COUNCILLORS PRIOR TO DELIBERATION ON THIS ITEM.
OFFICER INTEREST DECLARATION
Nil.
PROPOSAL
Council is required to consider revoking the Trading in Public Places Permit issued to Werner Lortscher as a result of acting in an offensive manner towards members of the public.
BACKGROUND
As a result of Shire Staff receiving a number of complaints in 2005/06 regarding the offensive behaviour of Mr Werner Lortscher, who operates a windsurfing business within Grace Darling Park in Lancelin, the Shire's Principal Environmental Health Officer forwarded correspondence dated 6 December 2006, to Mr Lortscher advising that if Council received any further complaints of this nature, a report would be presented to Council recommending his Trading in Public Places Permit be revoked.
Copies of the abovementioned complaints received by Shire Staff and subsequent correspondence to Mr Lortscher are attached under separate cover.
COMMENT
On 20 March 2009, Shire Staff received email correspondence from another complainant in respect to Mr Lortscher's offensive behaviour towards her husband while holidaying in Lancelin, a copy of which is attached under separate cover. As of a result of this complaint, and the previous correspondence forwarded to Mr Lortscher, Shire Staff are of the view that they have no option, but to recommend Mr Lortscher's Trading in Public Places Permit be revoked.
It is pertinent to note that this is the only complaint received by the Shire since 2006.
Trading in Public Places Permits issued by Council contain a standard condition requiring the Permit holder to comply with the provisions of Council's Activities in Thoroughfares and Public Places and Trading Local Law (2004). Section 6.8 (2) (b) stipulates that a Trader shall not act in an offensive manner.
STATUTORY ENVIRONMENT
Local Government Act, 1995 (as amended)
Activities in Thoroughfares and Public Places and Trading Local Law (2004)
Subdivision 3 - Conduct of stallholders and traders
6.8 Conduct of stallholders and traders
(2) A stallholder or trader shall not -
(a) deposit or store any box or basket containing goods on any part of a thoroughfare so as to obstruct the movement of pedestrians or vehicles;
(b) act in an offensive manner;
(c) use or cause to be used any apparatus or device including any flap or shelf, whereby the dimensions of a stall, vehicle or structure are increased beyond those specified in the permit; or
(d) in the case of a trader, carry on trading from a public place, unless there is adequate parking for customers' vehicles reasonably close to the place of trading.
7.10 Cancellation of permit
(1) Subject to clause 8.1, a permit may be cancelled by the local government if the permit holder has not complied with a -
(i) condition of the permit; or
(ii) provision of any written law which may relate to the activity regulated by the permit.
(2) On the cancellation of a permit the permit holder -
(a) shall return the permit as soon as practicable to the local government; and
(b) is to be taken to have forfeited any fees paid in respect of the permit.
PART 8 - OBJECTIONS AND APPEALS
8.1 Application of Part 9 Division 1 of Act
When the local government makes a decision -
(a) under clause 7.2(1); or
(b) as to whether it will renew, vary, or cancel a permit,
the provisions of Division 1 of Part 9 of the Act and regulations 33 and 34 of the Regulations apply to that decision.
POLICY IMPLICATIONS
Decisions on setting conditions for a Trading in Public Places Permit are based on criteria contained within the Shire of Gingin's Policy Statement 4.4 relating to Trading Activities within Lancelin Foreshore Reserves.
BUDGET IMPLICATIONS
Permits issued under the Shire of Gingin's Trading in Thoroughfares and Public Places Local Law (2004) currently generate an income of $560 per annum.
STRATEGIC IMPLICATIONS
Nil.
VOTING REQUIREMENTS - SIMPLE MAJORITY
RECOMMENDATION
It is recommended that Council revoke the Trading in Public Places Permit issued to Mr Werner Lortscher on 18 September 2008, to operate a sailboard hire business in the vicinity of Grace Darling Park.
RESOLUTION 09.0085
Moved Councillor Jarvis that Council authorise a continuation of Mr Werner Lortscher's Trading in Public Places Permit on the proviso that he agrees to secure National Tourism Accreditation through the Tourism Council of Western Australia in order to ensure that an acceptable standard of customer service is maintained.
CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY
REASON FOR VARIATION TO RECOMMENDATION
DURING DELIBERATION ON THIS ITEM, COUNCILLORS CONSIDERED ADDITIONAL CORRESPONDENCE WHICH WAS FORWARDED DIRECT TO THEM BY THE PROPONENT ON 3 APRIL 2009, A COPY OF WHICH WAS ALSO PROVIDED TO EACH COUNCILLOR BY THE PRINCIPAL ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH OFFICER AT THE MEETING.
COUNCILLORS ACCEPTED THE POSITION PUT BY THE PROPONENT AND ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THERE MAY WELL HAVE BEEN SOME HISTORIC CONFRONTATION BETWEEN WINDSURFERS AND KITE SURFERS DUE TO THEIR COMPETITIVE NATURE. COUNCILLORS RECOGNISED THE TOURISM BENEFITS OF THE PROPONENT'S WINDSURFING HIRE BUSINESS AND AGREED TO THE CONTINUATION OF HIS "TRADING IN PUBLIC PLACES PERMIT" ON THE PROVISO THAT AN ACCEPTABLE STANDARD OF CUSTOMER SERVICE IS MAINTAINED INTO THE FUTURE.
THE RESULTING RESOLUTION REFLECTS COUNCIL'S EXPECTATION AND REQUIRES THE APPLICANT TO SECURE NATIONAL TOURISM ACCREDITATION THROUGH THE TOURISM COUNCIL OF WESTERN AUSTRALIA."
Would be interesting to see if he has secured accreditation.
If you have been abused by Werner, then maybe rather than whinging here, you should be officially complaining !
sounds like werner just talked his way out of that one with the tourism stuff, i cant imagine that a psycho running the only windsurfing school up there (is it the only one?) is particularly good for tourism, especially in a small town. Does he get many repeat customers? surely a good operator would be better for lanno in general and perhaps even the windsurfer/kiter relationship?
A year on it would be interesting to see if he has his toursim accreditation...whatever it is, like he has to. Obviously the council take complaints seriously. Maybe if everyone posted complaints to council and not here he'd be outta there and some other worthy seadog could be running a good show up there instead?
Hi all,
I am very happy to be back kitesurfing in WA after 2 years in France (where I come from).
Since what a surprise and shock to see that the sport has started to take the same path as it has in Europe, that being a negative path...
I always thought I would have a break here from kitesurfing regulations and restrictions as there is so much space for everyone to share.
here is a google map of my home spot in france
www.google.fr:443/maps?hl=fr&ie=UTF8&ll=43.5353,7.038031&spn=0.001124,0.003449&t=h&z=18
(if you can't figure out where to launch from the map check the bit of helipad at the southern part of the car park...). this space now fits a good 30 to 50 kitesurfers and a handfull of windsurfers on the busy days but it had not always been as a peacefull relationship.
5 years ago when kitesurfing population started to grow we had the same problem with the council and some thickheaded windsurfers.
I have to say that I come from windsurfing and have absolutely no problem with most of them who are cool and respectfull.
Back then the cops would show up whenever somebody tried to launch from the helipad (out of use of course) or the stretch of beach nearby.
I skip the fun part of being chased by the sea rangers on their dingees, the fines waiting on your windscreen and the gear being confiscated.
All this to tell you guys that if nowdays we are still allowed to kite in Cannes and launch from the helipad (I know that is not the safest but what else can you do when you don't have any better...)
is thanks to the great job put together by the kitesurfing local association. Without that I could have kissed goodbye to my favorite occupation.
It has been long and painfull but we now have won the battle.
Funilly in 5 years time most of the pissy windsurfers got themselves into kiteboarding (don't worry, they are pissy kitesurfers now but at least they won't call the cops for prohibited kitesurfing activities ...
)
All in all I would much have preferred some good old sense of courtesy from everyone involved and not have to be restricted to a single spot (yes we have plenty of other nice launching areas such as rock jetties and sidewalks 
)
Stand up for your rights people don't let some old psycho fart crap your session. You would have guessed that I had the same experience as a lot of you with that werner guy 2 years ago. So lets all lodge in a formal complaint. WAKSA will sure help the things go further. It will pay off eventually.
By the way I found the surf be much nicer than "mainbreak" if you go a bit south upwind and further at sea in the bay from "eddies". Of course it's a fair bit of upwind sailing before you reach it but at least you are by yourself. Not being a local I don't know if it works all the time or only on big swell days. Some others may have to confirm it.
Probably shouldn't have said that as now all the windsurfers will go riding there
Kitepeace and good ride to everybody!
You guys need to stop seeing Windsurfers/Rangers/Werner/joe Public etc as the enemy and start thinking why Kitesurfers are so unpopular. Google "kitesurfing" and "banned" and you'll see what I'm talking about. This is nothing to do with Kitesurfing being a new sport, or being 'cooler' or whatever, it simply comes down to one small little fact, a powered up Kiter takes up 20m+ a windsurfer probably takes up 1m.. do the mental arithmetic... I've sailed main break with 50+ poleys including noob Euros who haven't a clue and that has been 1000 times better than sailing Main break with 10 poleys and 5 kiters. Throw into the equation this puerile, 'moody teenager' attitude that seems to predominate the world of Kitesurfing, you then have a sport that is about as welcome as Clamidya.
I don't know if it's a minority of Kitesurfers who are to blame, but it's up to Kitesurfers themselves to improve the reputation of their sport not everyone else. When you see a fellow kiter, in the wrong area it should be YOU that advises him of that, not a ranger.
). Likewise your 'mental arithmetic' and estimations I think are slightly exaggerated - take a look at how many fit into some European kite spots for example. A downed kite does take up about 20m with the lines and a downed sail, about 3m - sure but kiters in the waves generally don't drop their kites. Compare this to 3 or so windsurfers who regularly botched their gybes when I was out a couple of days ago. But the point I'm really trying to make is at the bottom!
